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Old 05-24-2022, 02:06 AM   #1
cincysubie
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Default 2022 WRX 6000rpm redline change to 7000?

Can the 6000 RPM redline of the 2022 Subaru WRX be changed to 7000 RPM with tuning on the stock motor?
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:56 AM   #2
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no...
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:06 AM   #3
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Go ahead and try and tell us what happens.
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:24 AM   #4
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the answer is yes, it can, although it may not last very long if you do that. and by not very long, could be forever, could be one pull. let us know how it goes
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:55 AM   #5
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With a bit of internal component work, this could be done. If you have someone else do this work, expect to spend a bit over $20,000.

A cheaper alternative is to tune out the rev limiter and just rev to 7000......once.
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Old 05-26-2022, 05:42 PM   #6
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Why did they do this? What a mess up.

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Old 05-26-2022, 05:43 PM   #7
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Any input from a tuner? Mines busy lol.

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Old 05-26-2022, 07:12 PM   #8
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Why did they do this? What a mess up.

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"This"

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Old 05-26-2022, 07:52 PM   #9
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My tuner said it's not mechanical. That it can be fixed with a tune. And he's one of the Subaru GOATs.. Finally got back to me.



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Old 05-27-2022, 02:53 AM   #10
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Why did they do this? What a mess up.

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Well, for starters, Subaru builds cars/engines for street use and intends for them to be used for a significant amount of time/miles.

They do not make 500whp :sly: high-rpm race engines, like something you might find in a Porsche GT3/Cayman GT4; that's not Subaru's forte (and never really has been). If Subaru did make these engines, I'm sure they would be priced like the other cars that are in that category.

High rpm sewing machines take extra time to build more precise balancing of crankshaft, con-rods, and pistons, valve springs, etc.) and requires extra attention when you are slinging around a piston the size of a baseball.

Do motorcycles do 10k, 11k, 12k rpm...yes, but their pistons are much smaller as is their stroke; but it still takes some work to achieve that.

My single cylinder, 2-stroke weed trimmer can do 10k rpm all day. Is it happy, not really, but the piston is smaller than a golf ball (I know, I took about one that broke)....and it eats special gas like candy.

If you want a 7.4k, 8k, 9k rpm daily driver, there are BRZ/86, S2000 and RX-8s out there, as well as a few Integras, Preludes, and Si (from decades ago)

High rpm engines also usually means high(er) rpm torque, which does not make for a good daily driver, where you spend a lot of time in the low rpm area.

Subaru did not mess up the 2022 WRX, and the FA24DIT that it comes with; that is not their mission; that is not their purpose.

Seeing your other posts, you already have plans to go B.I.G.; but don't blame Subaru for not adding more rpm to their spicy road car.

Enjoy.
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Old 09-20-2022, 06:25 AM   #11
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Well, for starters, Subaru builds cars/engines for street use and intends for them to be used for a significant amount of time/miles.



They do not make 500whp :sly: high-rpm race engines, like something you might find in a Porsche GT3/Cayman GT4; that's not Subaru's forte (and never really has been). If Subaru did make these engines, I'm sure they would be priced like the other cars that are in that category.



High rpm sewing machines take extra time to build more precise balancing of crankshaft, con-rods, and pistons, valve springs, etc.) and requires extra attention when you are slinging around a piston the size of a baseball.



Do motorcycles do 10k, 11k, 12k rpm...yes, but their pistons are much smaller as is their stroke; but it still takes some work to achieve that.



My single cylinder, 2-stroke weed trimmer can do 10k rpm all day. Is it happy, not really, but the piston is smaller than a golf ball (I know, I took about one that broke)....and it eats special gas like candy.



If you want a 7.4k, 8k, 9k rpm daily driver, there are BRZ/86, S2000 and RX-8s out there, as well as a few Integras, Preludes, and Si (from decades ago)



High rpm engines also usually means high(er) rpm torque, which does not make for a good daily driver, where you spend a lot of time in the low rpm area.



Subaru did not mess up the 2022 WRX, and the FA24DIT that it comes with; that is not their mission; that is not their purpose.



Seeing your other posts, you already have plans to go B.I.G.; but don't blame Subaru for not adding more rpm to their spicy road car.



Enjoy.
7000rpm is nothing. Every WRX and STI in the US had been 7000 (for intents here 6800 included). This is the first US WRX STI to rev limit to 6k. There's no excuse. It doesn't require wizardry. It's basic. Also don't say it's bc it's an SUV engine. We all know the FA24 in was being tested for the big show. It's no big deal to set the same motor up for a sports car Powerband. And hit about 7000rpm.

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Old 09-20-2022, 06:26 AM   #12
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"This"



Yes it is!

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Old 09-20-2022, 06:35 AM   #13
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The engine and trans can handle 500whp dynojet I believe. Do the math.

Also it can achieve a 6800-7000rpm rev limit with just a tune (rev limiter), it's not a mechanical limit.

Of course I'm postulating a bit. But run the numbers yourself. I know a ton of ppl with 425,450, 475whp on the stock engine turbo and trans on the fa20. The FA24 has more displacement, more torque, a bigger turbo, beefier internals. The engine would fail before the trans (unless the driver is being a tool).

Confirmed all thiswith my tuner. 500 we'll have to wait and see to be sure. But it's not a stretch by any means.

Brakes for sure should be upgraded. Suspension? Maybe. Internals? Not necessary at 450-500whp on this engine. fueling will be the first real limit. A DI upgrade is needed over 550whp. Prime motoring showed us this (or port).

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Old 09-20-2022, 12:03 PM   #14
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The engine and trans can handle 500whp dynojet I believe. Do the math.

Also it can achieve a 6800-7000rpm rev limit with just a tune (rev limiter), it's not a mechanical limit.
what does "can handle 500hp dynojet" mean?
sorry, but a 2 liter making 500 hp legit is not going to stay together long, I don't care what a tuner says.

And "it can achieve 7000 rpm redline with just a tune?"
Dude, rev limiters are electronic limits set to prevent people from blowing up their motors and then blaming the manufacturer. You can "achieve" a 12,000 rpm redline with a tune, doesn't mean it will last.
Stresses from reciprocation go up exponentially. Redline limits have nothing to do with the power you are making.
It can be a 200 hp motor and if you blow it past 7000 rpm's in first gear it's going to come apart.
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Old 09-20-2022, 04:11 PM   #15
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what does "can handle 500hp dynojet" mean?
sorry, but a 2 liter making 500 hp legit is not going to stay together long, I don't care what a tuner says.

And "it can achieve 7000 rpm redline with just a tune?"
Dude, rev limiters are electronic limits set to prevent people from blowing up their motors and then blaming the manufacturer. You can "achieve" a 12,000 rpm redline with a tune, doesn't mean it will last.
Stresses from reciprocation go up exponentially. Redline limits have nothing to do with the power you are making.
It can be a 200 hp motor and if you blow it past 7000 rpm's in first gear it's going to come apart.
Not in the case of the FA24. They could have set it for 6800 and it would have been fine.

As stated every WRX and STI rev limited here. Them setting it at 6000 is not because the engine can't handle more. You're acting like 6000 rpm is a feat for a Subaru engine. It's the lowest we've seen in American WRX and STI. FA or EJ.

This was a lazy misstep. They kept it at SUV rev limit. This engine, though the same has been made explicitly for the WRX and originally with capacity for an STI. Remember they were claiming to be at about 400hp when benchmarking the Mercedes engine. And the car was essentially done. Emissions regulations and goals by X date killed the car. At least that's the excuse.. it was essentially done by all accounts.

They could have changed nothing at set rev limit for about 7000rpm like they always have for the WRX. Not to mention the STI that we won't get.

I never said 500whp indefinitely. Of course it can't do it forever. But hundreds of people, maybe more, have run 425whp dynojet, or a little more (limit for engine is not HP but torque, which was 350) for years. My cousin has been running this for 5 years. And it's a smaller engine with weaker internals and a smaller turbo. Stock engine, trans and turbo.

But this engine could run 375-400ft lbs for years with proper tuning, parts and driving. And moreover, I believe with a 6800 rev limiter. That's stock engine, turbo and trans.

Do you know what all has been done to the FA24 to make the internals stronger and as they say, "beefier" ? If not you should look it up.

This is not an argument but a respectful discussion.


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Old 09-20-2022, 04:21 PM   #16
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Do you guys really think the fa20 could do 6800rpm since 2015 and now the new atouted fa24 (not in the ascent, but in the WRX) can't do the same? Come on! You know better. And they both make maximum power stock at 5600. So you can't tell me that's the reason.

It's either laziness, cutting costs, or overly cautious. Possibly a combination. Point being, the engine had rev to 6800 fine. They just chose not to let it to stock.

This should be frustrating to Subaru fans period. Unnecessary.

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Old 09-20-2022, 04:52 PM   #17
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Do you guys really think the fa20 could do 6800rpm since 2015 and now the new atouted fa24 (not in the ascent, but in the WRX) can't do the same? Come on! You know better. And they both make maximum power stock at 5600. So you can't tell me that's the reason.

It's either laziness, cutting costs, or overly cautious. Possibly a combination. Point being, the engine had rev to 6800 fine. They just chose not to let it to stock.

This should be frustrating to Subaru fans period. Unnecessary.

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Ask your tuner to explain to you the limitations of FI DI-only engines and why they are all designed with early powerbands and low redlines.
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Old 09-20-2022, 04:55 PM   #18
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This reminds me of the QR25DE in my old Spec V, nice little torquey motor but not really a high performance engine...the FA24 was designed for the Ascent, I didn't realize the redline was that low...especially since the BRZ/GR86 versions were massaged to rev to 7000 rpm...guess cost savings and the lack of an STI motivated them to just carry the motor over as is???

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Old 09-20-2022, 09:25 PM   #19
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Was composing a reply to this earlier this morning and got side-tracked. I find it interesting that the same FA24 revs to 7000 RPM just fine in the BRZ. I really think Subaru just set the redline and boost lower in the boosted FA24 vs. the FA20 so that the 2022 base WRX wouldn't blow the 21 out of the water. With a 6800/7000 RPM redline and a few more psi of boost, I feel like the motor would easily make 300 hp without affecting reliability at all. And with the boost raised to 16/17 psi with a tune, I think it's pretty easily capable of making 350 hp and still lasting well over 100,000 trouble-free miles. All that is assuming that the stock injectors can supply enough fuel. But considering that these motors seem to pick up 30 hp on the stock tune running E30, there appears to be plenty of fueling headroom.
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Old 09-21-2022, 10:15 AM   #20
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FI Direct injection has severe limitations on rpm, that is why they build them to have diesel powerbands. You need port injection to make power at higher rpm.

these limitations arent as severe on n/a applications
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Old 09-21-2022, 11:00 AM   #21
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FI Direct injection has severe limitations on rpm, that is why they build them to have diesel powerbands. You need port injection to make power at higher rpm.

these limitations arent as severe on n/a applications
Gotcha, guess I need to familiarize myself with direct injection a little more.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:26 AM   #22
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FI Direct injection has severe limitations on rpm, that is why they build them to have diesel powerbands. You need port injection to make power at higher rpm.

these limitations arent as severe on n/a applications
Though this is true. Subaru has demonstrated a 7000 RPM redline for the FA24 already. They also did 7000rpm in fa20 which is also not PI but just FI. (We'll round 6800 up for out purposes). And again every WRX and STI has been 7000rpm in the states. Why would this be any different.

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Old 09-23-2022, 07:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
Was composing a reply to this earlier this morning and got side-tracked. I find it interesting that the same FA24 revs to 7000 RPM just fine in the BRZ. I really think Subaru just set the redline and boost lower in the boosted FA24 vs. the FA20 so that the 2022 base WRX wouldn't blow the 21 out of the water. With a 6800/7000 RPM redline and a few more psi of boost, I feel like the motor would easily make 300 hp without affecting reliability at all. And with the boost raised to 16/17 psi with a tune, I think it's pretty easily capable of making 350 hp and still lasting well over 100,000 trouble-free miles. All that is assuming that the stock injectors can supply enough fuel. But considering that these motors seem to pick up 30 hp on the stock tune running E30, there appears to be plenty of fueling headroom.
You are right on Chuck and you are preaching to the choir here. Thank you for your insightful commentary.

I've been doing a lot of research on the fa 24 and so how it's responding to power. There's no reason to believe that the fa 24 can't make 300 real horsepower to easily on pump gas. Fa20 could. 350 wheel horsepower on E30 should be cake. In fact, if the fa 20 on E60 is in the indication should be able to make 400 easily to the wheels. My cousin has a 425 wheel horsepower Subaru that was on the stock engine trans and motor with just an intake exhaust j pipe one other part that I forget and a protune on E60 and that's what he was making Dyno jet. He switched to an FP blue and now he's making 505 and it's been running reliably for well let's just say I've lost track of miles...

In any event we know that the fa 24 stronger as much thicker cylinderelles valves that can increase RPM actually so in theory it should be able to handle slightly more RPM then fa 20 but when I say slightly. Also has beefier rods and pistons and is generally a stronger engine.

Go ahead and watch donut medias video on the fa 24 again, for even more corroboration (but not limited too).

We also know that Prime motoring made 500-550 wheel horse power on the fa24 for over 50 Dyno pulls.

This engine is going to be able to handle not only just more horsepower but also more RPM ever so slightly. They wouldn't have built the beehive springs that way which can increase RPM if they didn't intend to make it possible.

Engineers don't just do stuff like that. I completely agree with the Chuck that they set this engine very conservatively in terms of the rev limit in the in the power. I'm sure most of you were also shocked or disappointed when you found out that the brand new motor only makes a couple more horsepower. At first I thought it was pathetic but then I found out that's because it's a completely conservative tune and set up and it's barely pushing the engine and turbo RPM everything. Think about this the fa 24 makes the power it's making on 12 lb of boost according to the manual. Yes the gauge is going to read differently but we all know those aren't completely accurate.

Pointers this turbo is easily going to be able to turn up to 20 lb and then with the combination of E30 or maybe even E60 or E85 I guess we will see in time with more aggressive fuel tables and ignition timing advancements this thing is going to make some power and it's easily going to Red line at 6800. I'm thinking 6800-7250. Stock engine.

With full bolt ons the right blend of v and an aggressive yet reliable tune this car should be making somewhere between 400 and 500 wheel horsepower on the stock engine turbo and trans and I think it's going to be closer to 500.


P.S.

I will post back up on here with an update as soon as tuning is unlocked for the WRX and I increase rev limiter to at least 6800. I'm waiting on the aftermarket to give us everything platform because we all know what happened with cobb.


Notes:

At 5 minutes notice mention of the d4s system which uses port and fuel injection system. Remember that Toyota are now our partners in crime and they have an increasingly large stake in Subaru. It looks like this might have been used in future models or the STI and it doesn't exist yet but it doesn't mean that it can't be added in subsequent models and it also doesn't mean that that couldn't be applied to models that didn't come with it stock.

I'm not claiming that it's going to happen at all I'm just saying we just don't know and it's possible that they will add it later.

The fa 20 was a testing bed for the fa 24 and the fa 24 in the ascent was a testing bed for the WRX and was supposed to be for the STI that got canceled. So it's not as if the ascent engine was just plopped into the WRX for the heck of it. It was the opposite use the ascent to see how reliable it would be and then put it in the new WRX. Don't believe me? I'd be happy to provide a few citations (9:34, of donuts video)

The cylinder walls are twice as thick and the rods are also twice as thick. The beehive valve springs candle 500 to 700 more RPM then the traditional ones. Since they have a progressive spring rate and are not thicker they also managed to make it to where they do not add any additional stress to the valve frame but also manage to prevent valve float.

And again for those of you who are saying direct injection engines are not meant to rev to 7,000 RPM we've already demonstrated that they can and have been in the VA WRX.

And yes I realized that this Subaru is sent and other SUV type vehicles that the fa 24 is going in those are going to be higher volume Subaru knows that The proving grounds are their highest sport model which currently stands as the WRX.
Subaru realizes that though it's going to sell less WRX it's that image of making a good capable car with a great motor and how that translates into Motorsports for the next several years as well as respect ultimately is important to their engineering team and technical developers.

What does Subaru always put their best motor in? Supposedly they put their best parts in the STI and the ascent fa24 was testing grounds for the STI which they did intend to release for years and came very close to doing so but then we know what happened with the emissions bull crap. I digress about that however.


I'd be willing to bet that this engine will have no problem surpassing the fa-20 in terms of power as it should with the increased displacement and a truly all new motor on an all new car.

Moreover I'm convinced that the fa 24 will rev to 6800 no problem with a tune for reasons stated.

ANY SPELLING OR GRAMMAR ERRORS YOU WILL JUST HAVE TO DISREGARD AND FIGURE OUT ON YOUR OWN. I had to use voice to text out of necessity and I don't have time to make sure it's perfect.

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Old 09-23-2022, 07:03 AM   #24
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I've seen much more than this and read much more as well as followed several builds shops engineers and aftermarket companies but as a sort of quick pretty inclusive catch up please see the following:


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Old 09-23-2022, 07:06 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
Was composing a reply to this earlier this morning and got side-tracked. I find it interesting that the same FA24 revs to 7000 RPM just fine in the BRZ. I really think Subaru just set the redline and boost lower in the boosted FA24 vs. the FA20 so that the 2022 base WRX wouldn't blow the 21 out of the water. With a 6800/7000 RPM redline and a few more psi of boost, I feel like the motor would easily make 300 hp without affecting reliability at all. And with the boost raised to 16/17 psi with a tune, I think it's pretty easily capable of making 350 hp and still lasting well over 100,000 trouble-free miles. All that is assuming that the stock injectors can supply enough fuel. But considering that these motors seem to pick up 30 hp on the stock tune running E30, there appears to be plenty of fueling headroom.
Exactly. Redline and boost were limited for a couple reasons. For one they didn't want to completely outperform the 21 WRX, for two they wanted to save room for a big power jump to the STI at the time, and three they wanted the car to have better fuel economy because of stupid regulations.

This IS the STI engine. By all indications. It just needs unlocked!!!

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