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Old 12-20-2021, 01:06 PM   #1
sgt
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Default KONI insert into KYB Excel-G strut housing

I have an 07 wagon which has KYB Excel-G struts on it. I am thinking about switching to KONI inserts but cannot seem to find any information about whether these Excel-G struts are the same on the inside as the OEM struts. Does anyone have any experience with this situation?
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Old 12-20-2021, 05:15 PM   #2
2pot
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The Koni's used to come with an adaptor ring, if the inner diameter of the tube was too large - this was knocked into position.

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Old 12-20-2021, 05:23 PM   #3
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I would be willing to bet that Konis would work.
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Old 12-20-2021, 05:31 PM   #4
sgt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
The Koni's used to come with an adaptor ring, if the inner diameter of the tube was too large - this was knocked into position.
I've run into this thread which mentions that the tube was smaller than OE for a forester application. I am trying to determine if that is the case for WRX applications. Too large would certainly be the more desired situation.

https://www.subaruforester.org/threa...-2-way.374529/
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:13 AM   #5
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I was in the same ballpark at you. Kyb struts and wanted koni inserts but haven't found a soul that had done it confirming it so I bailed. Spending 800$ on konis just to find out it won't work wasn't my cup of tea. I was looking at the FEAL fixed perch struts, if you haven't checked those out yet.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:18 AM   #6
sgt
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I have played with the idea of just buying another Excel strut to cut open and measure. Not too much cost associated with that.

The Tein Endurapro Plus look promising but they are sedan fitment only it seems. As is the case with every other option as well. Wagon is unpopular I guess.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:53 AM   #7
2pot
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The image I posted is an excel-g front.
The excel-g rears have all been the same ID, so far, and not needed the adaptor.

You can get Wagon specific non-inverted struts in the UK market. KYB Ultra SR:
324034
324035
324036
324037
These are capable with sti rate springs. I've used them with 246lb/in front and 224lb/in rears. I wish the Feal FPS had more droop.

I'm not a fan of camber bolts.
You could fit GD sti alloy lca's on your wagon and then use KYB sedan front struts.
You can fit KYB sedan struts on the rear, if you drill out the top mounting holes in the lower clevis to 5/8" diameter.
The above supposes 7.5" width wheels and 225/45 tyres.

Last edited by 2pot; 12-22-2021 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 12-22-2021, 11:48 AM   #8
sgt
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Quote:
The image I posted is an excel-g front.
The excel-g rears have all been the same ID, so far, and not needed the adaptor.
Oh, that would appear to be good news then.

Quote:
You can get Wagon specific non-inverted struts in the UK market. KYB Ultra SR:
324035
324036
324037
324038
These are capable with sti rate springs. I've used them with 246lb/in front and 224lb/in rears. I wish the Feal FPS had more droop.

I'm not a fan of camber bolts.
You could fit GD sti alloy lca's on your wagon and then use KYB sedan front struts.
You can fit KYB sedan struts on the rear, if you drill out the top mounting holes in the lower clevis to 5/8" diameter.
The above supposes 7.5" width wheels and 225/45 tyres.
I am also not a big fan of aftermarket camber bolts which is why I would prefer not to use sedan front struts. I would also prefer not to replace the LCAs, sway bar, endlinks, and axles just to move to a sedan front track width.

Frankly, these Excel-G struts with the pink springs are not bad. If I lived in a place with normal quality roads, I would probably find them perfectly acceptable. Unfortunately, the roads here are pretty terrible which makes the ride quite jarring most of the time. I seems to me that the compression damping is too high. That is also why I am reluctant to try other KYB models as I would expect a similar behavior. My hope is that the KONIs would be a little more forgiving in that respect. I have also considered going to stock struts but I don't have any experience with them to know if they would be much different.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 12-22-2021, 12:03 PM   #9
2pot
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Compression damping on KYB excel-g is soft.
Koni's have stiffer compression damping.
Excel-g can't adequately control any version of the pink springs.
What are your wheel centre to arch measurements? I'm wondering if you're on the oem 60mm front bump stops? Did you cut them down or fit shorter alternatives?

What about a set of off-set front top mounts? In their max camber position.
Pedders 580096 top mounts, with rubber SEALED bearings - seem, so far, to be more long lasting than the Whiteline kca335 version - which has metal SHIELDED bearings.

Last edited by 2pot; 12-22-2021 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 12-22-2021, 12:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Compression damping on KYB excel-g is soft.
Koni's have stiffer compression damping.
Excel-g can't adequately control any version of the pink springs.
What are your wheel centre to arch measurements? I'm wondering if you're on the oem 60mm front bump stops? Did you cut them down or fit shorter alternatives?
I will check the height measurements later today. I did cut off one section of the bumpstops but perhaps that was not enough? Thinking about it more, it may be possible that the car is sitting on the bump stops though the car does not seem that low. When trying to bounce the car using my body weight, I get little movement.


Quote:
What about a set of off-set top mounts? In their max camber position.
Pedders 580096 top mounts, with rubber SEALED bearings - seem, so far, to be more long lasting than the Whiteline kca335 version - which has metal SHIELDED bearings.
The Pedders top mounts seem like a good option for the front. The price is certainly more reasonable than the Whiteline. The question would then remain what to do about the rear.
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Old 12-22-2021, 01:02 PM   #11
2pot
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As mentioned before, drill out the top mounting holes on a rear sedan strut's lower clevis to 5/8".
That will give you enough play, to push and pry rear sedan struts. Assuming max 7.5" wheel and max 225 tyres.

Last edited by 2pot; 12-22-2021 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
What are your wheel centre to arch measurements? I'm wondering if you're on the oem 60mm front bump stops? Did you cut them down or fit shorter alternatives?
I took some measurements and I'm at 14 inches at all four corners wheel center to fender. I also remembered that these struts actually have the aftermarket KYB bump stops installed. I saw in another post where you mentioned that these KYB bump stops are much harder than the OEM ones. Is it worth trying switching to cut down OEM?

Either way, I think I'm now going to have to visually check if the car is actually sitting on them at rest. All the indications seem to point to that being the problem.
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Old 12-23-2021, 12:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigboat_2 View Post
I would be willing to bet that Konis would work.
That's certainly the case for the 10-14 Legacy KYB excel-G struts - I bought and used them as donors for my car - I used Koni 8610-1447 Sport inserts in KYB 339222/339223 bodies. Does KYB make the oem struts for the WRX? they do for the Legacy
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Old 12-24-2021, 06:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt View Post
I took some measurements and I'm at 14 inches at all four corners wheel center to fender. I also remembered that these struts actually have the aftermarket KYB bump stops installed. I saw in another post where you mentioned that these KYB bump stops are much harder than the OEM ones. Is it worth trying switching to cut down OEM?

Either way, I think I'm now going to have to visually check if the car is actually sitting on them at rest. All the indications seem to point to that being the problem.
The oem, 60mm, 3 node stops, don't respond well to being constantly engaged, which they would be at your ride heights. If you cut them down you'd have next to no protection, as they are very soft to begin with.

At the front, you've lost 1 5/8" of bump travel.

Most dampers have more rebound than compression damping.

If you drive over a sequence of bumps, you will be incrementally pulled into the bump stops, by the excess of rebound damping - the rebound damping, after successive bumps, will not allow the damper to extend back to its full extension. This situation is now more problematic, as you have less bump travel to begin with, due to lowering.

If you're going to run with minimal bump stop clearance, you really need more compression damping. Or, excessively stiff springs, which reduce grip, on a road car.
You can mitigate the situation by utilising a shorter/stiff stop. Or, a stop of a similar length to, but softer than, the after-market KYB.
The KYB after-market front stops are 45mm - you can't cut them down, as they hold up the dust boots which attach to the stop. As you say, they are stiff.

The excel-g damper are probably toast, as they will have overheated, trying to damp the oscillations of the pink spring rate, that they weren't designed for.

Last edited by 2pot; 12-27-2021 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 12-24-2021, 06:22 PM   #15
sgt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
You can mitigate the situation by utilising a shorter/stiff stop. Or, a stop of a similar length to, but softer than, the after-market KYB.
The KYB after-market front stops are 45mm - you can't cut them down, as they hold up the dust boots which attach to the stop. As you say, they are stiff.

The excel-g damper are probably toast, as they will have overheated, trying to damp the oscillations of the pink spring rate, that they weren't designed for.
I have the stock dust boots on these now so I think I will first try to cut the bump stops down to see if that helps to alleviate the problem. Do you have a recommendation on the minimum length of bump stop to leave?

The shocks are new so they shouldn't be dead yet. However, if they are as inadequate as you say, then it's probably only a matter of time. It's funny that Subaru would offer such an unmatched spring as a dealer-installed option. In the end, it looks like the best options are to either go to KONI inserts with these springs, or find a set of stock springs to go with these struts.
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Old 04-20-2022, 01:25 AM   #16
D-Rodman
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I’ve purchased KYB Exel G struts for two of my wagons, a GD Impreza wrx wagon and an 08 outback. They worked ok on the outback with stock springs. Ride quality was ok, better than old worn out factory struts for sure. On the wrx wagon I ran usdm pink springs, that was not a good match. I’ve been running Koni inserts on my wrx wagon with usdm pinks and they ride awesome. I can run them 1 1/4 turn firm in front and 1 turn firm in the back and get a super comfortable ride. No need to go pass 2 firm turn front and 1 1/2 firm turn in the back for a proper firm street ride. With factory oem springs and similar tune the softer ride is super comfortable and on on the firmer setting they still ride excellent. Koni inserts are magic, I have one set with almost 120,000 miles with oem springs after riding 100,000 miles with pinks that still have a good ride and not leaking yet. I’m still running the front and rear settings at 1 1/4 front and 3/4 rear, amazing.


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