Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-10-2021, 02:57 PM   #1
PilotKD
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131702
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Premium
CWP

Default New EPA Regulations - EGR and TGV's

Just a heads up. I received word from a pretty well known tuner that they will not be able to touch TGV's or EGR (or tune for their removal) anymore due to new EPA regulations. I'm sure this will be a thing for many tuners out there or at least the ones who follow the rules. Kind of sucks. I was looking forward to some good numbers, but no TGV deletes is going to steal my thunder a little bit.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
PilotKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-12-2021, 05:40 PM   #2
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle:
2022 Tesla M3P
2019 STI CWP

Default

A lot of places will also stop selling the deletes.

I noticed that COBB pulled their stage 2 & 3 OTS maps from their website since they aren't compliant with the new EPA "anti-tampering" regulations.

Hopefully they continue to produce downpipes.

https://www.sema.org/epa-news

Last edited by WRXnick16; 03-12-2021 at 06:31 PM.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2021, 05:50 PM   #3
PilotKD
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131702
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Premium
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
A lot of places will also stop selling the deletes.

I noticed that COBB pulled their stage 2 & 3 OTS maps from their website since they aren't compliant with the new EPA "anti-tampering" regulations.

Hopefully they continue to produce downpipes.
Ugh. I guess I'll have to try to sell my IBR full TGVD's and EGRD. I wish I had acted sooner with getting a tune. I wonder how many e-tuners out there will turn a blind eye. I've street tuned my Mazdaspeed3 with AccessTuner, but definitely not knowledgeable with Subaru's to try anything like that with my WRX.
PilotKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2021, 07:44 PM   #4
murrdogg24
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50586
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Chiraq
Vehicle:
64 Impala

Default

i'm rocking full-semi assault TGV's
murrdogg24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 10:24 AM   #5
Asm123
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 467692
Join Date: May 2017
Default

I heard it may not just be TGV, EGR and catless J pipes. If they really wanted to go all out it seems any change to intake or exhaust on a "certified" street car could be made illegal. Really sucks, it seems no one really knows what the rules are and the EPA is just making it up as it goes.
Asm123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 10:42 AM   #6
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

so are they gong to stop selling the parts? or are they just unable to delete codes in the ecu?
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 10:54 AM   #7
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

As someone once said, "elections have consequences."
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 11:09 AM   #8
Asm123
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 467692
Join Date: May 2017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
so are they gong to stop selling the parts? or are they just unable to delete codes in the ecu?
I don't think anyone really knows. They made a change in regulations a few years back that was broadly worded and gave them a lot of wiggle room to basically do what they want, go after tuners, manufacturers, sellers etc.to prevent people doing modifications to their car that would not be in compliance with the Clean Air Act. So now there seem to have been a few EPA raids of tuners and manufacturers in the last few weeks and the industry is getting spooked.
Asm123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2021, 11:18 AM   #9
PilotKD
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131702
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Premium
CWP

Default

Like anything else, it'll create a black market for parts and force people to DIY and street/ e-tune. Life always finds equalibrium.
PilotKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 09:47 AM   #10
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asm123 View Post
I don't think anyone really knows. They made a change in regulations a few years back that was broadly worded and gave them a lot of wiggle room to basically do what they want, go after tuners, manufacturers, sellers etc.to prevent people doing modifications to their car that would not be in compliance with the Clean Air Act. So now there seem to have been a few EPA raids of tuners and manufacturers in the last few weeks and the industry is getting spooked.
meh I live in California. they cant really stop people from selling parts. as long as its for "off road use" what can they do. you guys are worried about nuthin

so who got raided? what manufacturers?
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 09:52 AM   #11
murrdogg24
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50586
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Chiraq
Vehicle:
64 Impala

Default

Magnaflow was one of the big ones...
https://www.magnaflow.com/blogs/magn...ttles-with-epa

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
meh I live in California. they cant really stop people from selling parts. as long as its for "off road use" what can they do. you guys are worried about nuthin

so who got raided? what manufacturers?
murrdogg24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 10:00 AM   #12
standardtranny
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 450713
Join Date: Jul 2016
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Super bowl LII champs
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Stage 3ish
world rally blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrdogg24 View Post
Magnaflow was one of the big ones...
https://www.magnaflow.com/blogs/magn...ttles-with-epa
I fully support them going after the "rolling coal" diesel doochers. Which it seems like that's what got Magnaflow into trouble. Also catless downpipes/jpipes are dumb anyway and cause boost creep. I have no problems with any of this.

I think EGR/TGV deletes are pretty low on their to-do list
standardtranny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 12:33 PM   #13
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle:
2022 Tesla M3P
2019 STI CWP

Default

A lot of vendors have stopped selling the TGV/EGR deletes already if you check their sites. I reached out to a couple and received responses along the lines of:


"Unfortunately, we cannot sell TGV deletes or offer this service due to current legal issues involving the EPA."


COBB is redesigning their catted downpipe & J pipe to be compliant with the EPA regulations and to prevent the need for disabling the associated catalyst efficiency & rear O2 DTCs.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 02:51 PM   #14
Barge
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62941
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: @brgperformance
Vehicle:
2004 #LesboRacer
#TunedbyBarge

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
meh I live in California. they cant really stop people from selling parts. as long as its for "off road use" what can they do. you guys are worried about nuthin

so who got raided? what manufacturers?
If they stop the manufacturer and distributors they certainly can stop them.

The conglomerate that owns RallySport got fined 3 million dollars.

And to whoever said they don't care about EGR and TGV they were both specifically named in that fine/lawsuit.
Barge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 06:20 PM   #15
benflynn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 515308
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by standardtranny View Post
I fully support them going after the "rolling coal" diesel doochers. Which it seems like that's what got Magnaflow into trouble. Also catless downpipes/jpipes are dumb anyway and cause boost creep. I have no problems with any of this.

I think EGR/TGV deletes are pretty low on their to-do list
unfortunately other asshats fully support taking you to jail for touching your own vehicle. As long as you don’t like catless pipes then I guess it’s all good. It’s cool till they come for you.
benflynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 06:22 PM   #16
benflynn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 515308
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

I wonder where my stupid boost creep is anyhow. I’d love some creep, real problem is boost falling off not creep
benflynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2021, 01:56 PM   #17
Rexy18
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 500337
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barge View Post
If they stop the manufacturer and distributors they certainly can stop them.

The conglomerate that owns RallySport got fined 3 million dollars.

And to whoever said they don't care about EGR and TGV they were both specifically named in that fine/lawsuit.
Where does it mention tgv and egr. Anything i ever read mentions diesel trucks in particular and no other mention of gasoline vehicles even.

Genuinely curious.
Rexy18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2021, 10:50 PM   #18
guciodog11
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 160264
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: S.I, NY
Vehicle:
95 20G'd EJ257 GM6

Default

Just grab a Tactrix and delete them yourself this has and never will be an issue.
guciodog11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2021, 12:06 AM   #19
Barge
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62941
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: @brgperformance
Vehicle:
2004 #LesboRacer
#TunedbyBarge

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy18 View Post
Where does it mention tgv and egr. Anything i ever read mentions diesel trucks in particular and no other mention of gasoline vehicles even.

Genuinely curious.
I didn't save the documents but people posted images from the filing and they had a table of products that included both of those.
Barge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 09:38 AM   #20
standardtranny
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 450713
Join Date: Jul 2016
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Super bowl LII champs
Vehicle:
2017 WRX Stage 3ish
world rally blue

Default

Cobb seems to be the only manufacturer whos ahead of the curve and working on an EPA compliant catted J pipe. They'll have the market even more cornered if their R&D pays off and they're the only game in town.
standardtranny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 01:00 PM   #21
Rexy18
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 500337
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

Everyone will come out with compliant cats but cobb ots maps may only work with their cat, forcing ots people to buy another one of their products.
Rexy18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2021, 09:42 PM   #22
Diavolo_
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 522840
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrdogg24 View Post
Magnaflow was one of the big ones...
https://www.magnaflow.com/blogs/magn...ttles-with-epa
the article you linked is two years old.
Is that relevant to whatever is happening now?
Diavolo_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2021, 07:58 PM   #23
Asm123
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 467692
Join Date: May 2017
Default

Here's the new memo from EPA explaining their approach to how they'll enforce the clean air act. FYI a memo from the EPA is basically law due to how congress has empowered them. Scariest part of this is that any tuning equipment that would allow an average Joe to defeat the EPA mandated devices could be construed as a "defeat device" with how I read this and potentially taken off the market or drastically changed. Take the Cobb accessport. Currently how the accessport is set up you or an individual tuner could go in and due your own tuning for your specific setup. Under this new memo there's a good chance aftermarket parts makers will want to precertify their tunes and parts compliance, probably through CA's CARB, before putting them to market to avoid investigation or potential enforcement action from the EPA. This would mean no custom tuning your subi. Only precertified staged tunes like Cobbs or MAPs stage 1 or 2 etc. and of course those will only work on Cobb or MAP parts. So MAP intake with a COBB exhaust, could be a no no. Not 100% the EPA will go this far, they seem to be mostly focused on rolling coal, EGR and CAT deletes for now, but they've certainly set the stage to get much tighter control of the tuning market.



https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...etampering.pdf
Asm123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2021, 06:36 PM   #24
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Sacramento, CA
Vehicle:
2022 Tesla M3P
2019 STI CWP

Default

Details about COBB's "Project Green Speed":

https://www.cobbtuning.com/project-green-speed
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2021, 09:15 AM   #25
86Dreams
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 385256
Join Date: Mar 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
'18 Giulia QV
'21 Giulia Q4

Default


Last edited by 86Dreams; 04-08-2021 at 04:03 PM.
86Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.