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03-10-2021, 02:57 PM | #1 |
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New EPA Regulations - EGR and TGV's
Just a heads up. I received word from a pretty well known tuner that they will not be able to touch TGV's or EGR (or tune for their removal) anymore due to new EPA regulations. I'm sure this will be a thing for many tuners out there or at least the ones who follow the rules. Kind of sucks. I was looking forward to some good numbers, but no TGV deletes is going to steal my thunder a little bit.
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03-12-2021, 05:40 PM | #2 |
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A lot of places will also stop selling the deletes.
I noticed that COBB pulled their stage 2 & 3 OTS maps from their website since they aren't compliant with the new EPA "anti-tampering" regulations. Hopefully they continue to produce downpipes. https://www.sema.org/epa-news Last edited by WRXnick16; 03-12-2021 at 06:31 PM. |
03-12-2021, 05:50 PM | #3 |
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Ugh. I guess I'll have to try to sell my IBR full TGVD's and EGRD. I wish I had acted sooner with getting a tune. I wonder how many e-tuners out there will turn a blind eye. I've street tuned my Mazdaspeed3 with AccessTuner, but definitely not knowledgeable with Subaru's to try anything like that with my WRX.
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03-12-2021, 07:44 PM | #4 |
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i'm rocking full-semi assault TGV's
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03-13-2021, 10:24 AM | #5 |
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I heard it may not just be TGV, EGR and catless J pipes. If they really wanted to go all out it seems any change to intake or exhaust on a "certified" street car could be made illegal. Really sucks, it seems no one really knows what the rules are and the EPA is just making it up as it goes.
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03-13-2021, 10:42 AM | #6 |
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so are they gong to stop selling the parts? or are they just unable to delete codes in the ecu?
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03-13-2021, 10:54 AM | #7 |
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As someone once said, "elections have consequences."
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03-13-2021, 11:09 AM | #8 |
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I don't think anyone really knows. They made a change in regulations a few years back that was broadly worded and gave them a lot of wiggle room to basically do what they want, go after tuners, manufacturers, sellers etc.to prevent people doing modifications to their car that would not be in compliance with the Clean Air Act. So now there seem to have been a few EPA raids of tuners and manufacturers in the last few weeks and the industry is getting spooked.
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03-13-2021, 11:18 AM | #9 |
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Like anything else, it'll create a black market for parts and force people to DIY and street/ e-tune. Life always finds equalibrium.
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03-17-2021, 09:47 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
so who got raided? what manufacturers? |
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03-17-2021, 09:52 AM | #11 |
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03-17-2021, 10:00 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
I think EGR/TGV deletes are pretty low on their to-do list |
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03-17-2021, 12:33 PM | #13 |
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A lot of vendors have stopped selling the TGV/EGR deletes already if you check their sites. I reached out to a couple and received responses along the lines of:
"Unfortunately, we cannot sell TGV deletes or offer this service due to current legal issues involving the EPA." COBB is redesigning their catted downpipe & J pipe to be compliant with the EPA regulations and to prevent the need for disabling the associated catalyst efficiency & rear O2 DTCs. |
03-17-2021, 02:51 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
The conglomerate that owns RallySport got fined 3 million dollars. And to whoever said they don't care about EGR and TGV they were both specifically named in that fine/lawsuit. |
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03-18-2021, 06:20 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
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03-18-2021, 06:22 PM | #16 |
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I wonder where my stupid boost creep is anyhow. I’d love some creep, real problem is boost falling off not creep
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03-19-2021, 01:56 PM | #17 | |
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Quote:
Genuinely curious. |
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03-19-2021, 10:50 PM | #18 |
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Just grab a Tactrix and delete them yourself this has and never will be an issue.
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03-20-2021, 12:06 AM | #19 |
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I didn't save the documents but people posted images from the filing and they had a table of products that included both of those.
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03-22-2021, 09:38 AM | #20 |
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Cobb seems to be the only manufacturer whos ahead of the curve and working on an EPA compliant catted J pipe. They'll have the market even more cornered if their R&D pays off and they're the only game in town.
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03-22-2021, 01:00 PM | #21 |
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Everyone will come out with compliant cats but cobb ots maps may only work with their cat, forcing ots people to buy another one of their products.
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03-22-2021, 09:42 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
Is that relevant to whatever is happening now? |
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03-23-2021, 07:58 PM | #23 |
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Here's the new memo from EPA explaining their approach to how they'll enforce the clean air act. FYI a memo from the EPA is basically law due to how congress has empowered them. Scariest part of this is that any tuning equipment that would allow an average Joe to defeat the EPA mandated devices could be construed as a "defeat device" with how I read this and potentially taken off the market or drastically changed. Take the Cobb accessport. Currently how the accessport is set up you or an individual tuner could go in and due your own tuning for your specific setup. Under this new memo there's a good chance aftermarket parts makers will want to precertify their tunes and parts compliance, probably through CA's CARB, before putting them to market to avoid investigation or potential enforcement action from the EPA. This would mean no custom tuning your subi. Only precertified staged tunes like Cobbs or MAPs stage 1 or 2 etc. and of course those will only work on Cobb or MAP parts. So MAP intake with a COBB exhaust, could be a no no. Not 100% the EPA will go this far, they seem to be mostly focused on rolling coal, EGR and CAT deletes for now, but they've certainly set the stage to get much tighter control of the tuning market.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...etampering.pdf |
04-07-2021, 06:36 PM | #24 |
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04-08-2021, 09:15 AM | #25 |
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SAE docs
EPA alternative fuels ruling Enforcement policy memorandum An overview of the policy Relevant EPA publications
The docket in which RSD is named Note that other companies are named as well. The $3mil fine is on page 11, I dont know enough about this to tell if this is split between them or if its per each. Last edited by 86Dreams; 04-08-2021 at 04:03 PM. |
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