Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Archives > NASIOC Archives > STi Forum Archive

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2003, 11:51 AM   #76
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default Re: Re: Re: Super Bird

Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch



a big complicating factor is that car aerodynamics are extremely complicated... even compared to a plane's wings.

Most of the analyses I've seen from trusted sources or experimental data show that the elevated portion of the wing acts like a "splitter", smoothing the air flow across the rear window to trunk transition, and quelling the turbulence that would normally create lift there.

again, until we get some wind tunnel time, it's anyone's guess
That what I had said; "Meanwhile the STi wings upper plane provides a break for smooth laminar flow of air off the roof & rear glass preventing air turbulence which most folks know induces/increases drag & instability."

Yes, the car body of course complicates things but the same/similar applies to the body (fuselage) of a plane, boat or whatever toward most other applications.
I wouldn't call the top plane a splitter, as its not splitting air directionally which is what a true splitter does. Its merely a wing, thats all. The lower plane again produces the down force.

Remember this thing has two functions and two surfaces via two planes. The upper _and_ the lower plane, which is physically affxed to the deck lid and also acts as the units base.

- Janq
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Janq is offline  
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 09-05-2003, 12:13 PM   #77
robmarch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18713
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Time is the Enemy
Vehicle:
06 CRV
04 STi

Default

I agree with your assessment, Janq, and think it agrees with most of the technical analysis I've seen on the topic. I also agree of your assesment of the "base", as you probably know from my 50 or so posts on the topic

there are some dissenters with respected opinions, though, so the wind tunnel would ultimately be the judge.

Have a good one.
robmarch is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 12:32 PM   #78
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch
I agree with your assessment, Janq, and think it agrees with most of the technical analysis I've seen on the topic. I also agree of your assesment of the "base", as you probably know from my 50 or so posts on the topic

there are some dissenters with respected opinions, though, so the wind tunnel would ultimately be the judge.

Have a good one.
I got an idea for a 'wind tunnel' test.
Attach silly string to the back of the car then drive down the road at varying speeds with the upper plane in place and a chase car following behind. Then repeat withthe upper plane removed.

I'll bet money that the chase car will use its windsheild wipers much more often withthe plane removed than when its on.

- Janq practiced in McGyver science
Janq is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 12:57 PM   #79
robmarch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18713
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Time is the Enemy
Vehicle:
06 CRV
04 STi

Default

actually, one of the best tests I've seen was amazingly similar to that
robmarch is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 01:07 PM   #80
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch
actually, one of the best tests I've seen was amazingly similar to that
No doubt as I was serious.
The tools are unorthodox but the science & application is real and relevant. Somebody should do it and post their detailed results.

Race are you listening...?

- Janq
Janq is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 06:10 PM   #81
Keith99RS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9243
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Suffield, CT
Vehicle:
05 Nissan Titan
06 B9 (hers)

Default

Janq - Read waaayyyy back in this thread. I pretty much said the same thing you did in laymans terms about disrupting airflow with the exception of the trunk portion of the wing providing downforce. I also stated in that post that someone on this site also taped small streamers all over his GC RS to show air flow and illustrated it with and without the RS wing. The smaller, than STi, RS wing did increase airflow off the rear glass. Without the wing the streamers never left the surface. Rainwater also has been known to just swirl around without running off the glass while the non winged GC is in motion. So, no wind tunnel is really needed. Just some auto paint safe tape, some streamers, an open road, someone willing to take off their wing as a comparo (or a wingless STi) and a car to ride along side with a digital camera. Feel free to play myth buster or fact maker!
Keith99RS is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 06:18 PM   #82
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Keith99RS
Janq - Read waaayyyy back in this thread. I pretty much said the same thing you did in laymans terms about disrupting airflow with the exception of the trunk portion of the wing providing downforce. I also stated in that post that someone on this site also taped small streamers all over his GC RS to show air flow and illustrated it with and without the RS wing. The smaller, than STi, RS wing did increase airflow off the rear glass. Without the wing the streamers never left the surface. Rainwater also has been known to just swirl around without running off the glass while the non winged GC is in motion. So, no wind tunnel is really needed. Just some auto paint safe tape, some streamers, an open road, someone willing to take off their wing as a comparo (or a wingless STi) and a car to ride along side with a digital camera. Feel free to play myth buster or fact maker!
Yeah, I remember that one...it was way back.
Unfortunately fast forward to yesterday and it seems folks forgot it or ignored it.

I agreed with you 100%.
And yes the streamers (or yarn) thing will work fine too.
We cycling folk use those on bikes to test for aerodynamics in tucked and normal riding position.

- Janq
Janq is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 06:50 PM   #83
kage
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25101
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: HIIC
Location: www.luanainn.com
Vehicle:
2002 PSM WRX Wagon
1999 Twilight Blue Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq


Dang...

- Janq

"Now that's just mean" - Lee Marvin, 'Payback'
That wasn't Lee Marvin, that was James Coburn.
kage is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 06:53 PM   #84
MiniLegs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 26227
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2007 Tribeca
Gunmetal

Default

bling?
MiniLegs is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 07:04 PM   #85
simon13elmont
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 40249
Join Date: Jul 2003
Default Re: Re: Super Bird

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq

the great engineer Michaelangelo in his 'Codex' as well as applied by the aviation pioneer Sikorsky (helicopters) amongst many others who pioneered work with air foils for various uses.
Not to flame or anything Janq, what you had was to say was actually very interesting, but I think you meant Leonardo DaVinci, not Michelangelo (the correct spelling of his name), and the inventions name was not the codex.

The codex was actually one of the worlds first encryption devices. A tube that could only be opened by rotating its various sections to the correct code and pulling at the extremities. The tube contained a message made of papyrus wrapped around a vial filled with vinegar. If you tried to force it open the vial would break and dissolve the papyrus.

But you are right, many of Leonardo's sketches included theoretical applications of the modern airfoil such as the helicopter and his famous flying machine.

Sorry if this is off topic but the Italian in me felt it should be mentioned.

Anyway what would really be great is an aftermarket spoiler. I've thought long and hard of trunk swapping but it leaves the back looking far too bare not sexy enough. Something that integrates with the hood would be better. If you could somehow find a way so that the bottom half of the wing does not curve up at the left and right extremities then I would be in. I've searched far and low but have found nothing. Does anyone know of an aftermarket spoiler like that? Or should I follow in the footsteps of raceengineer and be the first to walk the path everyone thinks of but no one dares?
simon13elmont is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 07:48 PM   #86
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default

Michaelangleo...LMFAO!

Thanks for correcting me on that one.
That must have been a Freudian mind slip or something...but its very funny, to me. Yes, I was meaning Da Vinci.

As for 'Codex', I'm correct on that one.
I have a modern day reproduction of one in its original Italian script with English sub-references in my library somewhere. I found it discarded on top of someone's recycle bin years ago.
When I saw it I immediately recognized it and my eyes went like this

Anyway, it was a master blueprint book created & printed by Da Vinci himself and details out the specifics toward many/most of his ground breaking theories and observations including amongst others the theory of airfoils & flight. Its a fascinating read.
In fact as I recall there were five that he made (they all have individual sub-names) with one being lost/destroyed and the remaing four are in various locations with Bill Gates having bought one a few years back.

For more information on The Codex (not the papyrus decoder) either take a visit to NYC and see it at the 'American Museum of Natural History' or learn more about it via their website; http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/codex

If you know about and like the payrus decoder, and are Italian too, then you'll absolutely love learnign about Da Vinci's 'Codex'.

- Janq

P.S.
I'm still laughing at Michealangelo....thats what I get for free verse writing without going back to make edits.

P.P.S.
Hi Rob!

Last edited by Janq; 09-05-2003 at 10:00 PM.
Janq is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 09:15 PM   #87
robmarch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18713
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Time is the Enemy
Vehicle:
06 CRV
04 STi

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq
P.S.
I'm still laughing at Michealangelo....thats what I get for free verse writing without going back to make edits.
you can edit on here? I thought everyone wrote free verse
robmarch is offline  
Old 09-05-2003, 10:13 PM   #88
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by robmarch


you can edit on here? I thought everyone wrote free verse
Yep.
The best thing to do is to hit the "Preview Reply" button which is to the right of the "Submit Reply" button. Doing so will bring up a detail of your post and what it will look like both in structure and in actual 'print'. Typically duing the day I skip this feature for sake of time as I just write whats on my mind and type it out then let it fly...

At night when I have more time I tend to go through what was dumped from the wet cell and edit for spelling, grammar and/or the ocassional ham fisted statement which as you know I'm prone to throw out depending on my mood and the subject (i.e. EVO's are slow ).

If you jam something out and need to revise it after you have hit the Submit button there is (or should be) an 'Edit' button below your post which will allow you to go back in and revise your statement. An example of which I made to my previous post in the postscript.

Regards,

Henry
Janq is offline  
Old 09-06-2003, 08:01 AM   #89
Nivek-CA
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 41415
Join Date: Aug 2003
Default

Ok, say if I wanted to buy a paintable set from you, how much would you charge me. I need to get this upper deck portion out of my view and off the car out of sight from cops, ricers, etc.
Nivek-CA is offline  
Old 09-07-2003, 10:46 PM   #90
simon13elmont
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 40249
Join Date: Jul 2003
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq

As for 'Codex', I'm correct on that one.
I have a modern day reproduction of one in its original Italian script with English sub-references in my library somewhere. I found it discarded on top of someone's recycle bin years ago.
When I saw it I immediately recognized it and my eyes went like this
Mea culpa Janq. I had confused the codex with the cryptex my bad.

Thanks for the link.

Back on topic though, seriously, it would be AWESOME if there were some sort of aftermarket spoiler that blends in with the trunk. Something like the spoiler you can get for the M3. Something that doesn't leave the back completely naked.
Something not quite as gaudy as the wing.

Don't get me wrong I like the wing and I do believe it is functional I just don't like the attention that it gets from law enforcement and the ricer crowd.
simon13elmont is offline  
Old 09-07-2003, 10:52 PM   #91
Janq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Where ever I lay my hat is my
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by simon13elmont


Mea culpa Janq. I had confused the codex with the cryptex my bad.
Don't sweat it as even human encyclopedias make mistakes at times. Codex, cryptex at least your mistake was somewhat similar in name. Mine though was boffo.

If you are ever in NYC be sure to stop by and check out that Codex exhibit. Its fascinating stuff for a techie and/or history buff, not to mention an Italian.

- Janq
Janq is offline  
Old 09-08-2003, 12:18 AM   #92
z
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 41762
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: International
Location: House of Pancakes
Vehicle:
04 STi
in ur Floriduh

Default

Codex?

I thought those were like, tampons or something.

oh wait, that's Kotex.
z is offline  
Old 09-08-2003, 08:05 AM   #93
robmarch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18713
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Time is the Enemy
Vehicle:
06 CRV
04 STi

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq

Typically duing the day I skip this feature for sake of time as I just write whats on my mind and type it out then let it fly...

At night when I have more time I tend to go through what was dumped from the wet cell and edit for spelling, grammar and/or the ocassional ham fisted statement which as you know I'm prone to throw out depending on my mood and the subject
I never end up going back and rereading for mistakes, so I just try to get it right the first time. But, there are a ton of people here who should reread their posts and correct grammar and errors, since they're incredibly bad. sarcasm doesn't translate online
robmarch is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Memorial day weekend at the beach and the weekend neighbors L Bo Off-Topic 11 05-22-2009 11:11 PM
Ok guys. Pick a date for the 2nd annual Sunrise At the Beach Meet 2002. munkis Tri-State Area Forum 41 06-22-2002 08:27 PM
('93-'01) First Ever! i-club Sunrise at the Beach Meet now in the record books! great turnout!! munkis Impreza Forum 27 09-23-2001 06:23 PM
('93-'01) Pics of My Scooby at the Beach ! Wedge Impreza Forum 3 05-05-2001 08:30 PM
This weekend at the beach GREEN HORNET North West Impreza Club Forum -- NWIC 0 08-31-2000 10:58 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.