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Old 04-25-2003, 03:24 PM   #1
T-WRX Racer
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Default What can really compare to the STI

For the money, I really don't see any car that can touch the STI. I know the EVO will be close but I just don't see it really comparing to the STI. (mainly in acceleration) Considering that they are pretty much the same price. Please don't come up with "If I mod my civic, neon, blah blah crap. I am talking about stock cars only. Perfomance for the dollar on factory delivered cars only.

Just for agruements sake I think these #'s will be accurate or close enough anyway.
13.00 1/4 mile
4.7 0-60
.94 g's skid pad
72mph 700ft salom

I would find it hard to believe that the Sti couldn't easily pull these figures out.

Anything with better numbers cost 20k more.
I just wanted to see what you guys think.
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Old 04-25-2003, 03:46 PM   #2
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this subject has been beaten to death many times before. just do a search and you will see many threads like STI vs. EVO, STI vs. G35, STI vs. 350Z etc...
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Old 04-25-2003, 03:49 PM   #3
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also,

if numbers are all that matters to you, than you are right. but, if you are looking for overall value and other things like handling and driving fun (for lack of a better word) than the STI does indeed have some competition (EVO,350Z etc...)
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Old 04-25-2003, 05:30 PM   #4
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The numbers are just use as a discussion point. I can't put other factors like "driver's fun" in to statistical data that is universal to all cars. I just wanted to open a theard for it to be compared to any and all cars. And besides, We probably won't have anything new to talk about anyway until May 1st.
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Old 04-25-2003, 05:36 PM   #5
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i agree with you about the fact that we need something to do until may 1st. every thread i read so far with comparison between the STI and any other car ended up the same way. it is a fast car but there are always faster cars out there.it's a great handling machine but there are better out there.
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:07 PM   #6
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Pretty much the Supra TT, 300ZX TT, RX-7, used NSX, used 911, all can match & exceed those numbers in stock form. Those are very good numbers but keep in mind, the STI is not about the 1/4 mi and 0-60 stuff.

It's a purpose built rally car on the road and will dust those sports cars once we hit the dirt.

On the track it's a different story, 300ZX TT or Supra TT will pull and corner hard will give the STI a lot of problems, they are RWD and less powertrain loss on the highspeed straights.

It's good car for the $ no doubt.. but not supreme.
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Just for agruements sake I think these #'s will be accurate or close enough anyway.
13.00 1/4 mile
4.7 0-60
.94 g's skid pad
72mph 700ft salom

Why even start this argument again
Evo:
13.1-13.4 1/4 mile
4.9-5.0 0-60
.97 skidpad

Acceleration the Sti will be quicker than an Evo...handling and braking is a different story...then you have cars that won't be able to quite match the handling #'s but will be fairly close yet still out accelerate. A '03 Cobra 12.5 1/4 mile and still a good handler and braker...though not as good as Sti, Evo. The Z06 Corvette and various other cars are just as good overall but quicker..I think used Z06's are about 35k.
The reason I got an Evo and only considered the Evo or Sti was the fact that they offer a good overall package but are practical with 4drs and awd
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:47 PM   #8
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wait, didnt someone post something about the sti ra spec c having the fastest time for a street going car, only lost to a acura nsx type r, on nurburgring?

Huh, seems like it handles ok to me.
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Old 04-25-2003, 06:59 PM   #9
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wait, didnt someone post something about the sti ra spec c having the fastest time for a street going car, only lost to a acura nsx type r, on nurburgring?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a j-spec Sti that is lightweight and different from the US Sti? Isn't the US Sti the heaviest Sti ever? That will play a role in handling compared to a j-spec ra spec-c.
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:03 PM   #10
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Guess I was right:

Quote:
Unlike the regular STi, the Type RA has a quicker-ratio steering rack (13:1 as opposed to 15:1), a three-gallon water-spray reservoir for the intercooler, a stiffer sport suspension with beefier anti-roll bars, a mechanical rear limited-slip differential, and a driver-adjustable electronic center diff. The torque split is set at 45/55 percent front/rear but can be changed to 50/50.

To go with the handling and driveline tweaks, the Type RA Spec C went on a 308-pound diet compared with a standard STi, losing things like the undercoating, air bag, radio, air conditioning, and even the passenger's sun visor. In the process, it also gained lightweight glass and a thinner-gauge roof panel and trunk lid. The car we tried was a Type RA Spec C in the sixteen-inch wheel-and-tire configuration, retrofitted with seventeens. Just to confuse everyone, Subaru also offers a Spec C with seventeen-inch wheels, but that model doesn't have the variable center diff.

On the street, the Spec C is about as spunky as small cars get. The turbocharged engine is nowhere near as peaky as a standard WRX's and provides meaningful grunt from 2500 rpm all the way up to the 8000-rpm redline. The steering is quick and accurate, the STi's carryover brakes (with four-piston front calipers) are terrific, and the six-speed manual gearbox is sweet
Hmm..It has the same steering ratio as the Evo (13:1). Doesn't the US Sti also have an even slower 15.3:1 instead of the usual Sti's 15:1?
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Broeli

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a j-spec Sti that is lightweight and different from the US Sti? Isn't the US Sti the heaviest Sti ever? That will play a role in handling compared to a j-spec ra spec-c.
Broeli, you are 100% correct. The US versions of both the STi AND the EVO are the heaviest versions ever produced (I'm not sure about the EVO GT-A though)

For example...

The USDM STi is 23 lbs heavier than the Euro STi (3263 vs 3240)

The USDM EVO is 155 lbs heavier than the Euro EVO VIII (3263 vs 3108)

NO DOUBT, such weight differences WILL have an impact on how the US versions handle compared to their lighter Euro counterparts
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:42 PM   #12
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Default more Spec-C-ulation.

Quote:
Originally posted by Broeli
Guess I was right:

Well no, not entirely. Technically the US STI is more powerful than the spec C which is officially rated at 276 hp, and 283 pf torque. (who knows what the outcome would be, if you were to put both engines on a dyno with 94 oct....we only know per Shiv; that the US STI makes considerably more power than the US EVO)

Supposidly the US car has some of the front suspension changes heretofore seen only on the Spec C.

It is the DCCD that is cited as the biggest reason for improving the handling of the car, as it is said to allow pretty much for dial in oversteer, and the DCCD is on the American version, and not on any of the European versions so often compared to better spec-ed out Evos.

Even in weight the car isn't significantly different than the European STI, also listed at 3234, just 30 pounds lighter than the US spec. Heck, I'll take the DCCD with the 30 pound handicap thank you.

This is unlike the US EVO which is both signficantly de-spec'ed in terms of hardware....5 speed, no front lsd, acd, or ayc, and yet significantly heavier (150+) pounds than the European Evo, which in turn is heavier than the Japanese EVO. According to Mitsu, the US Evo VIII also makes 25-30 less HP than the European EVO VII.

As for the spec C
Quoting automobile: "Best of all, though, is the handling. This car counters the critics who complain about the WRX's tendency to understeer—which can be combated by lifting off the throttle to rotate the rear. The Spec C grips and goes, and it's easy to neutralize any initial turn-in understeer with a stab on the throttle pedal....think awesome."

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...wrx/index.html

Last edited by strangerq; 04-25-2003 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 04-25-2003, 07:49 PM   #13
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Sorry, no - the American version is lighter than the standard JDM STi, and slightly heavier than the JDM STi Type C RA. American measurements include fluids, spare tyres, jack. The JDM measurements are "dry". Also, the lightest spec C's are the ones without the 17" wheels and brembo's, DCCD-A. The one that went around the Ring certainly had those. The JDM Spec C RA with the 17" wheels/brake/dccd-a package is probably very close to the USDM STi weight (there should be about a 20kg difference).

The car that clocked a 8:06.59 around Nurburgring was one of the Type C RA's also used as a press car. What's basically special about it is that it's hand made vs. Production - like nearly every pre-launch press car out there. The driver, though, was very, very good. He's been around Nurburgring some 3000 times.

I'd estimate that in his hands, an USDM STi press car would be at most 2-3 seconds slower than the one mentioned. It may even be faster, who knows without a back-to-back.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Broeli
...handling and braking is a different story...then you have cars...
thats highly debatable..
--bobby
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Sorry, no - the American version is lighter than the standard JDM STi, and slightly heavier than the JDM STi Type C RA. American measurements include fluids, spare tyres, jack. The JDM measurements are "dry".
Same goes for the Evo. The braces, etc. were taken out by Shiv on his car and it only dropped 20lbs. The j-spec VII was actaully weighed wet by SCC at 3260..US is listed at 3263. The Evo added weight over the VII though with additional chassis welds and braces. The US Evo stays close to j-spec weight because of the 5-speed, no ayc/acd.
What about the steering ratios...is the US getting a 15.3:1 or a 15:1?
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by BobbyD


thats highly debatable..
--bobby
actually it's not, the EVO is a very well known beast in the cornering and it has been like that for many years. most poeple i know who driven both STI and EVO has always said that the EVO has a better "drive on rale" feel to it whereas the STI is better daily driver overall. i have driven both STI ver.5 and US spec EVO and i can tell you that the EVO is a handling beast.

just my opinion
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr. blonde

actually it's not, the EVO is a very well known beast in the cornering and it has been like that for many years. most poeple i know who driven both STI and EVO has always said that the EVO has a better "drive on rale" feel to it whereas the STI is better daily driver overall. i have driven both STI ver.5 and US spec EVO and i can tell you that the EVO is a handling beast.

just my opinion
Does the US EVO allow for throttle oversteer?

Why are US Evo buyers asking for a Quaiffe or some other front differential to kill understeer?
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Broeli

Same goes for the Evo. The braces, etc. were taken out by Shiv on his car and it only dropped 20lbs. The j-spec VII was actaully weighed wet by SCC at 3260..US is listed at 3263. The Evo added weight over the VII though with additional chassis welds and braces. The US Evo stays close to j-spec weight because of the 5-speed, no ayc/acd.
What about the steering ratios...is the US getting a 15.3:1 or a 15:1?
What was removed in terms of AYC/ACD was added back in terms of front subframe. The Evo VIII received the regular Lancer front subframe for crash regulation reasons. You cannot remove the front subframe.

That's why people haven't been able to remove the weight through bumpers or bracing. That's not where the weight was added. The upshot was weight added to the front - but for a very good reason. The Evo VII may be ultimately a little better for performance reasons (at least in that regard), but you really, really wouldn't want to get into a head-on collision in one.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by strangerq


Does the US EVO allow for throttle oversteer?

Why are US Evo buyers asking for a Quaiffe or some other front differential to kill understeer?
well, i drove the US EVO on the street and it was amazing. the other EVO i drove on the track was an EVO 7 and it had the ACD and AYC and maybe that's what made all the difference. on the street though, i do beleive that the EVO is great even without all the gizmos. if you want a better opinion, just ask Paul because he has way more experience with these cars than i do and he is also far better driver than i am.
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr. blonde

actually it's not, the EVO is a very well known beast in the cornering and it has been like that for many years. most poeple i know who driven both STI and EVO has always said that the EVO has a better "drive on rale" feel to it whereas the STI is better daily driver overall. i have driven both STI ver.5 and US spec EVO and i can tell you that the EVO is a handling beast.

just my opinion
hah.. so there doesnt exist a debate over which car has better handling.. the evo or the sti? you just made my day..
thanks
--bobby
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:46 PM   #21
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The EVO's weak. STI vs. used Z06, now that's a tough decision(unless of course you need the back seats or awd).
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by BobbyD


hah.. so there doesnt exist a debate over which car has better handling.. the evo or the sti? you just made my day..
thanks
--bobby
i never said there was no debate, i just said that they are both great machines, each in it's own right and each for it's own style. the EVO's handling was always sharper with better steering response than the STI. basically it all comes down to what you are looking for and what you preffer. some people will like the EVO better and some will like the STI. and there is no need for the sarcastic tone, i was just stating MY opinion and i did it with out being sarcastic.
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Old 04-25-2003, 11:04 PM   #23
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As with the WRX, I think that the STi will have no available competitor, when you consider that it is the only car among those mentioned (350Z, Evo, etc) in its price range that is fast all the time, in any conditions...rain, snow, dry, dirt trails, whatever.

Again as with the WRX, that makes it a very special breed. IMHO, to compare it to anything else does it a disservice.

Kevin
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Old 04-26-2003, 12:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr. blonde


i never said there was no debate, i just said that they are both great machines, each in it's own right and each for it's own style. the EVO's handling was always sharper with better steering response than the STI. basically it all comes down to what you are looking for and what you preffer. some people will like the EVO better and some will like the STI. and there is no need for the sarcastic tone, i was just stating MY opinion and i did it with out being sarcastic.
re-read what you posted prior to this last response of yours.. what you just posted now is not what was in that last post..
--bobby
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Old 04-26-2003, 12:42 AM   #25
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i re-read all my posts and i couldn't find what you are talking about. i said that the EVO has a better feel to it due to quicker steering and stiffer suspension, that still don't mean it handles better and i never said it did. like i said differenet cars for differenet people.
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