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Old 03-06-2003, 01:10 PM   #26
ObsidianRS
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Unfortunately in SoCal, we're not so lucky. There's only one dealer that's saying they won't charge over MSRP. The others are waiting to see what other dealers charge. And some already stating 2-3k over sticker.
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Old 03-06-2003, 01:32 PM   #27
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I said it was the dealers were the ones marking up the price, not mitsubishi. I said nothing about warranty

VV

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry C
If the dealers are not Mitsubishi, then who is??? When you need that thing worked on, you will take it to Mitsubishi (The Dealer) That is one of the biggest problems with owning a Mitsubishi, the vast number of dealers are death on any Mods. They are refered to as "SATAN" on the DSM boards.
I have 3 Subaru dealers within 100 miles of my location, and ALL 3 will sell me an STI at MSRP. I suggest you get out and do a little shopping.
I have personal expierience with both DSM and Subaru, and there is no comparison between the two manufacturers. That is why I have owned 4 Subaru's and only 1 DSM. When my Talon TSI/AWD is broke I get out the wrenches, the last place I would take it would be the dealer, and I think you will find that most DSM owners have the same feeling!
Dont get me wrong, I think the EVO is probably a great car. But your buying more than a car, you are buying into a company and all of thier policies.
Happy Motoring!! Jerry C
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:36 PM   #28
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Since when is a FMIC some super awesome addition to a car? Big deal, it's an intercooler, they look sharp, but it's performance is ALL that matters.

Also, DSM is no more.

Oh yea, the STi would get my money if I had it. 300/300, DCCD 6 speed, big breaks, etc, etc, etc. I'm all over that.
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:43 PM   #29
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My Biggest problem with the EVO VIII is that its playing to the Ricer Crowd far to much for my taste-

I mean, first, it looks like nothing more than a Mirage with a big wing and a body kit (that's all it is), way to reminiscant of the Go-nowhere Civics with Big-wings, body kits and clueless drivers I see everywhere.

Then there's the interior... no thanks. (I'm a little skittish on the WRX's interior too, I must admit. I'm very much a Euro-snob when it comes to interiors)... but I'll take the STi's over the Econobox with sparco look of the EVO III (back to the whole ricer trend)...

I even heard that the premier of the EVO III was all done up to be F&TF II, and that Mitso paid an assload to have the "good guy" car in the new FTF movie be an EVO III.

The EVO might have performance, but its got the sophistication of a cheap stripper... Nope, sorry, not interested.

-Scott
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:05 PM   #30
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To the guy that had 290Hp on his vishnu equipped WRX,

You got dyno proof? If what you are claiming is tru, then obviously the EVO must be producing more than 300HP since it is a heavier car (3260lbs) than the wrx wagon(3150 lbs), especially when you claim that it feels like it has 40HP more than the WRX.

Damn, the EVO is fast and Mitsubishi is purposely lying to us about their true HP ratings because they hope to ease the demand on their EVOs????

Otherwise, your car is a dog and you should take it back to Vishnu and have them verify your setup since you claim to have 290HP, I am assuming you have the stage 1?

Oh hell, I am picking up the EVO either tomorrow or Saturday. We'll see if it feels faster than my TXS stage 3. I may have a dog since I only dynoed at 230whp on the dynapack. That already makes me at 300hp.....that means EVO must have 300+ HP. Best buy under $30,000....I say

Nick
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:14 PM   #31
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nicktckhoo: The gearing in the EVO could be better optimized for the power, making the car feel faster.
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:28 PM   #32
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Hoping to see an evo I stopped by a Mitsu dealer today. They had just gotten back from a demo in Atlanta and their first ones won't be arriving for about a week. I told him I was already on a list for the STi and he got all excited and started telling me why I was picking the 2nd place car. To him it didn't matter that the centre differential is a ton better (not because I'll be controlling it at first but the computer will instead of just all time 50/50), 6 speed, the interior is more than econo, etc. But then he continued to say that Mitsu is requiring that all service be from them, that if they can't account for one oil change that the warranty will be voided. Also that the tires will not be available anywhere but Mitsu (~$1k a set and rated at 10k miles), absolutely no mods or voided warranty. Then I about laughed when he said it had a 'MOBO' stearing wheel and a 2.4 litre with AYS. At least he said twin scroll and not tt. I'll be going to take a look but I just don't think it looks as good as the STi, just personal preference there.
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Old 03-06-2003, 06:30 PM   #33
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true, it does have better gearing and stock wrx gearing is horrible for the power, especially in 4th gear. My bro-in-law is the one picking up the EVO and as soon as he breaks it in, we are gonna race. His EVo vs my stage 3. Stay tuned because I should be picking it up with him tomorrow. I'll let you guys know first hand if the EVO does indeed feel faster.....
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Old 03-06-2003, 07:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by nicktckhoo
I'll let you guys know first hand if the EVO does indeed feel faster.....
Oh no you not @#$%^&! We'll just see which has more pick up at under 3000 rpms.

I'll show you when the sleeper has awaken, be afraid, be very afraid

http://www.rmrproducts.com/home.htm

http://www.rcdevelopments.com/index2.htm

http://www.japanparts.com/Mitsubishi...oVII/Index.htm
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Old 03-06-2003, 07:50 PM   #35
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Actually, I'm pretty sure a standard Evo will feel faster than a WRX with "comparable" hp - peak hp numbers don't tell the whole story. The Evo has a rather good torque band from 3000rpm up in conjunction with rather low gearing. While some modded WRX's may be comparable, the majority won't be able to compete with the factory twin-scroll setup and it's low-end flexibility. This holds true for a modded WRX vs. the STi, which is why I don't hold with the "mod my WRX out to 300hp for less money" theory.

Modification can go quite far, but it's hard to beat a factory setup built by the people that, well, built the engine.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 03-06-2003, 08:03 PM   #36
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Okay I give up!! The Mitsubishi Dealers have nothing to do with Mitsubishi Motors. I think I will start my own Mitsu. dealership. If I dont have to answer to anyone but myself, this will be great.
"Jerrys Totally Independant Mitsubishi Place"
Taking Orders for New EVO VIII's. $10K under invoice!!!
Send your $5000 non/refundable deposit ASAP.
Special discounts to the 10,000+ Non Existant members of DSM
clubs here in the US.
Happy Motoring, and no checks please, Just call me "Mr M"
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Old 03-06-2003, 08:06 PM   #37
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Default why I like the STi (or WRX for that matter)

I didn't take the time to read this whole thread - so my apolgies if this was already discussed.

In the issue of Car and Driver with the Evo on the cover...they talk about how Mitsubishi takes the Lancer and then adds reinfocements to it (frame and body). This will make it stronger and able to deal with the stress of the go-fast bits.

What I like about the Subaru's is that this stuff is already built in on the 2.5 RS model. It makes me believe that Suby thought of things from square 1 - where as Mitsu took a Lancer and performed surgery on it get it where its at....this approach smells of American car manufacture's tatics.
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Old 03-06-2003, 08:10 PM   #38
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Actually, to be picky. They are not owned by Mitsubishi but they are franchises. They have deals with the manufacturer. The manufacturer sells them cars at wholesale, they offer certification for repairs, etc.

I don't know if Mitsu owns any dealerships. I know Subaru does not. American manufacturers like Ford do own some. I'd say just guessing that Mitsu dealerships are all franchised.

This means that Mitsu, like Subaru, has no control over pricing. Just like McDonald's "prices may vary per location" because while the corp. McDonald's is advertising $1 bigmacs, a person who owns a McDonald's franchise is under no obligation to offer that deal. They usually do to take advantage of free advertising from the corporation though.

Similarily, Mitsubishi sells their dealers a car and the dealer, being privately owned by someone else can do what they want to with it. Heck, they can just buy them and keep them most likely (just won't stay in business very long)
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:06 PM   #39
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Gtr,

I knew I would get you to jump in

Of course, the car would have to be broken in before any hard driving occurs. I give up. My modded wrx will always be inferior to the EVO........ even the STI..... The factory cast iron block with front mount intercooler will always be better. With wrxs it is always about better interior, lower c.g and better sum of all parts.

Baseline, the EVO concept has always been better with a similar displacement. There is nothing in this world, performance wise, that I can ever convince Gtr and his like on evolutionm.net that the wrx comes even close. And, I am afraid he is right.

Imagine, if mitsubishi wakes up and dumps the 2.4l block into the EVO..... the STi is still ahead? Sigh, no.

I come from Singapore and all the local racers acknowledge that stock for stock, there is no way an STi will be faster than an EVO. perio(JDM). Then, everyone talks about the more pliant suspension and better interior.... who cares.. who buys a subaru or a mitsubishi for their interiors? Get an Audi.

Ok I will keep quiet now and acknowledge my defeat.

Nick
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:35 PM   #40
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Default EVO experience (long)

I just got back from the Mitsu dealer in beaverton, OR. They recieved 8 EVO's and they had only one left to sell, due to the fact that the person that had the deposit down, lost his job (sucks to be him). I called and asked if they had one, they said they did. I asked if I could test drive it. The guy said yes.

I get there (there is a big rain storm here) and as I walk in, I ask for the guy that I spoke to on the phone. He then hands me to their "specialist". He trys to get me to fill out some paper work in exchange for a test drive. I tell him that I will have to wait until the STi is released before I do any paper work. He didn't even know that the STi hasn't been released yet (way to keep informed of the competition).

He takes me out to the car and unlocks it, pops the hood and the trunk. After I look at the engine and interior, he says that he has other business to attend to being the assistant manager. Another guy comes out and tells me that because of someone taking a test drive in Seattle, and wrecking it, no one is allowed to drive the car unless you purchase it. At that point I got the feeling that I was getting the run around, and they knew I wasn't buying today and didn't want me to test drive it. He lets me start it up at least, and you know what? There is no boost gauge! My eclipse, which has pretty much the same motor, has a factory boost gauge.

I asked the guy about all the things that they took out of the USDM EVO and every reply was "Mitsu was trying to keep the base model just under $30k MSRP." The thing mentioned about the tires being only available from the dealer was true, (only 10K mile life and must be rotated every 5K) but he didn't know the price. On the inside of the driver door says something along the line of "The OEM tires are ment for better handleing in dry weather. It is recommended that you use winter tires in the winter"

One cool thing that I saw on the engine was a "header"-like thing. It looked like a very small header that fed strait into the turbo. I guess that is a good way of cooling the exhaust before it hits the turbo, althought I don't think it would boost HP all to much.

The interior is much to be desired although the seat do grip you really well. The rear wing in dead center in your field of view in the rear-view mirror.

As I was looking around the car I noticed that EVERY SINGLE PANEL had the VIN on it. Makeing it even harder to steal.

One last thing... they wanted $10,000 OVER MSRP. The scary thing is that they have sold 7 in this fashion.
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:45 PM   #41
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Car dealers suck. But don't you dog the Evo again

It is a great car for the money; fat recaros and big brakes, altezas for tail lights and carbon fiber wing.....Wish I had one

It is indeed a shame that dealers are gorging but there is a price to pay to be the first. Of course, when mitsu brings their ACD and AYC and 6-speed over, those over-paying people are going to feel quite stupid. But, there is always a but, some wise guy is going to tell me that the US EVO is actually an RS, with no ACD and no 6-speed. Indeed, I think the cheap RS exists in that fashion. But, I think it retails for $22K and not......$10K over msrp.

Evo is the best

Nick
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Old 03-06-2003, 09:49 PM   #42
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HEY!!! If you love the EVO so damn much, why don't you marry it? And go talk about it in an EVO forum.
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:11 PM   #43
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dudes kidding.

pay attention.
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:14 PM   #44
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So am I. Who would marry an EVO? That's just silly.
Of course I'll happily hump my STI when I pick it up.
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:23 PM   #45
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oops! sorry.
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Old 03-06-2003, 10:36 PM   #46
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hump both of them

That should be quite a sight

Ok my apologies for going off topic.

Seriously folks, it boils down to preferences. But without driving both the STi and Evo in the real world and on the track, it is difficult to judge. ALl we both is speculate but regardless we are finally lucky to be seeing the 2 greats side by side in the US. Let the great AWD wars begin.....

Nick
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:14 PM   #47
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For the person who commented about the STi in the other market not close to the EVO, I would say the following:

a) STi in the other markets uses the cheap Viscous coupler center differential, except the Rally ready STi RA Type-R, which is produced in extremely limited numbers. Nobody compares an STi RA Type-R with the Mitsu. The US STi on the other hand, comes with an Active Center Differential with Driver torque adjustability. Completely different animal. In fact, in the US, the EVO vs STi technological sophistication is reversed. All the top notch technological features of the EVO have been engineered out in the EVO that came to the US, including AYC and ACD, while all the technological sophistication missing in the STi in other markets are available in the US.

b) The other markets STi, gets the regular 2.0L Turbo, which is a bit low-end torque challenged, unlike the Mitsu which is geared well and the turbo is designed for good low-end response. The US-market on the other hand, gets an exclusive 2.5L kickass turbo which no other market gets. Gobs of low-end torque along with a turbine like pull all the way to its redline, will humiliate the EVO available in the US.

So comparing the STi available in other markets with the EVO available in other markets, is not smart, since we are comparing 2 entirely different animals.

The situation would have been a lot closer, if the EVO came with the AYC and ACD. Even then, the STi would still have an edge but right now, there is no contest at all between the EVO and the STi.
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by akoshy

So comparing the STi available in other markets with the EVO available in other markets, is not smart, since we are comparing 2 entirely different animals.

The situation would have been a lot closer, if the EVO came with the AYC and ACD. Even then, the STi would still have an edge but right now, there is no contest at all between the EVO and the STi.
I would say comparing the STI and the EVO in the US market is not smart either, considering one only exists on paper, as far as you or I are concerned.
Before you say there is no contest, why don't you wait until they can actually be compared, instead of magazine racing.
Im not convinced one is better than the other in any dept right now.
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Old 03-06-2003, 11:33 PM   #49
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Ouch, you bring up a good point...that is the war has only begun and will get better. EVO seems to be taking the step Subaru took when they brought out the wrx...the low tech budget version because no one knew if the expensive variant could sell. So, don't be surprised when the next EVO comes with ACD, AYC, 2.4L twin scroll and all the other JDM stuff.

One thing though, the EVO rs comes with a 5-speed and ACD, AYC is optional. Therefore, short of the bumper beams, the US EVO could be a pure, low tech, racing RS version.....?

But, as they say, this is only the beginning...... wait til the cosworth focus gets here or even better yet peugeot WRC. Now that's my favorite hatchback.

I love rally cars.

Nick
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Old 03-07-2003, 02:13 AM   #50
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Just a point:

The JDM STi 8 is not challenged for low-end torque. There was a big change to the engine for ver. 8. While it won't compete with the USDM STi for low-end, it's no slouch. It's making around 230ft/lb's of torque from 2200rpm, more than the USDM WRX Turbo makes anywhere. And it just ramps up quickly from there.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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