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Old 12-30-2002, 11:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Re: Re: BTW...

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


Then how do you explain as to why Australia and New Zealand haven't announced either their turbo Forester or STi? All the other markets that get the 2.0 turbo Forester and 2.0 STi have already announced those models.

I wouldn't bet against 2.5 turbos showing up in those models.

Bob
Is simply not the time to announce yet, not all countries launch their new cars at the same time.
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Old 12-31-2002, 08:43 AM   #27
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you could call it not true
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Old 12-31-2002, 10:06 AM   #28
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...

Quote:
Originally posted by HOKWRX

Is simply not the time to announce yet, not all countries launch their new cars at the same time.
I think it's more than that. Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA are the *only markets* that get the *2.5* Forester, and they are the only markets that have yet to announce the new turbo Forester and new STi. I'm betting that this is more than just a simple coincidence. I bet they all get 2.5 turbos, but are waiting for the North American announcement first.

Bob
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Old 12-31-2002, 10:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
Is simply not the time to announce yet, not all countries launch their new cars at the same time.
They've already announced the 03 WRXs..... usually the STi is announced sometime after and typically "off cycle" at least for Australia.

Glenn
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Old 12-31-2002, 11:11 AM   #30
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However, all markets that have gotten the 2.0 turbo Foresters, have also had (2.0) facelifted STis announced. Every market that has gotten 2.5 Foresters, have yet to get their turbo Foresters or STis announced. I think this is more than just a mere coincidence.

Bob
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Old 12-31-2002, 11:23 AM   #31
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Casting the way back clock to 1997 (for the MY98) we were the first market to receive a naturally aspirated 2.5 in an Impreza. They know how we (you) Americans love your cubic inches.

Glenn
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Old 12-31-2002, 11:57 AM   #32
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:06 PM   #33
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Why would they bring over a car (STI) with a 2.5 that does not even meet SCCA and WRC specs? That seems stupid to make their own rally teams pull out the 2.5 and put in a 2.0 and then do all the modifications...
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by mejifair
Why would they bring over a car (STI) with a 2.5 that does not even meet SCCA and WRC specs? That seems stupid to make their own rally teams pull out the 2.5 and put in a 2.0 and then do all the modifications...
To sell (more) cars in a market that believes: "there's no replacement for displacement." It would also give Subaru a decided edge over the Evo. The 2.0 STi already exists in many markets, so I see no conflict with the WRC.

Bob
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:18 PM   #35
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As you said Glenn, if the STI is a 2.5 it would be quite a weapon. So to answer your question let's call it "The Weapon". Those who don't think we will get the 2.5 are like Scrooge before his conversion. These rest of us view life as a glass half full, not half empty! The reports of those folks who claim to have driven or ridden in the new STI (mostly Canadians) describe the STI as "Unbelievable". I can imagine a 2.5 STI being "unbelievable", but not a 2 liter running on our gas and with our emissions. Whatever motor the STI comes with, the losing "camp" will have to do some kind of penance on this board (like posting "I am an
idiot") as a sign of respect to the "winners". Happy New Year.
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
I should also point out that the aftermarket low boost (~5 PSI) 2.5 RS's make what, 250BHP?

Glenn
My take is this, if a 2.5 low-boost turbo should arrive* (for Forester, Baja and Legacy applications): The current 2.0 Forester turbo is reported to make 177 HP. An increase from 2.0L to 2.5L is 25%. So, if you increase 177 by 1.25, you get 221.25 HP.

Not being an engineer, I have heard that, all thing being equal, larger cylinders are a bit less efficient than smaller cylinders. So, that being the case, my guess would be somewhere around 215 HP, but with gobs of low-end torque. That would still give the 227 HP 2.0 WRX a big edge in power, as well as maintain its performance image.

* = Big "if" for sure, at this point...

Bob

Last edited by rsholland; 12-31-2002 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:26 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
As you said Glenn, if the STI is a 2.5 it would be quite a weapon. So to answer your question let's call it "The Weapon". Those who don't think we will get the 2.5 are like Scrooge before his conversion. These rest of us view life as a glass half full, not half empty! The reports of those folks who claim to have driven or ridden in the new STI (mostly Canadians) describe the STI as "Unbelievable". I can imagine a 2.5 STI being "unbelievable", but not a 2 liter running on our gas and with our emissions. Whatever motor the STI comes with, the losing "camp" will have to do some kind of penance on this board (like posting "I am an
idiot") as a sign of respect to the "winners". Happy New Year.
Excellent post & suggestion!

Bob
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


I think it's more than that. Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA are the *only markets* that get the *2.5* Forester, and they are the only markets that have yet to announce the new turbo Forester and new STi. I'm betting that this is more than just a simple coincidence. I bet they all get 2.5 turbos, but are waiting for the North American announcement first.

Bob
OMG, you guys, there is also a 2.5 Forester in Japan, EJ25 DOHC.
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
Casting the way back clock to 1997 (for the MY98) we were the first market to receive a naturally aspirated 2.5 in an Impreza. They know how we (you) Americans love your cubic inches.

Glenn
That because we didn't get the WRX and STi, plus the EJ25 engine in the impreza is just a SOHC, nothing special. For example, 3000GT, Supra TT, 300ZX and RX7 didn't get a displacement increase when they bought them over. I can understand more then 280HP could happen for our STi, but not a 2.5T.

Last edited by HOKWRX; 12-31-2002 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...

Quote:
Originally posted by HOKWRX


OMG, you guys, there is also a 2.5 Forester in Japan, EJ25 DOHC.
Not in the Forester lineup. They're all 2.0 engines.

http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/index.html

Bob
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Old 12-31-2002, 12:48 PM   #41
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To have an engine pass emission tests is pretty simple, bigger catylitic converter, ECU reprogrammed, etc. To fix it and gain full HP, you just have to ripp off the cat's, and reflash the engine. I thought I heard somewhere that the WRX has 2 or 3 cat's on it, just overheard from someone else, so I don't know how acurate (or if it is possible!), so I would like to know.

It is possible that the US got a 2.5L STi, but Japan would probally get it first. And yes, a 2.5L turbo would be a sort of monster. If you could do the AWD like a skyline does, up to 50% of the torque at the front wheels if the back wheels slip, and all the power at the back wheels and the center diff locked if wheels arn't spinning, then it would be a drag strip monster for shure.

-Drew
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Old 12-31-2002, 01:04 PM   #42
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The reason I think the Forester will come in a 2.0 Turbo form is because of the mileage coming out of the 175 hp machine, 30+mpg. It's not mean't as a big power maker, though I have heard it is suposed to be quite responsive, likely better than the 2.5 if that says anything. I do think they should have an upgraded version call it the XT Xtreme or something and bump the power to 210hp, WRX brakes, and a 1" suspension drop with a firmer ride. That would be a nice sporty Forester.
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Old 12-31-2002, 01:09 PM   #43
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Returning to this thread's topic
Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
They know how we (you) Americans love your cubic inches.
Subaru will take the cubic inch equivalent of the engine's displacement (2475cc = 151ci) and combine it with the abbreviation for its intended market (North America = NA) to create the thoroughly confusing model designation of:

151NA

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Old 12-31-2002, 01:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
Whatever motor the STI comes with, the losing "camp" will have to do some kind of penance on this board (like posting "I am an idiot") as a sign of respect to the "winners". Happy New Year.
This probably doesn't count for anything, and I'm not saying I know what the answer is, but the new Car magazine made no mention in it's article of a 2.5L engine. Of course that's the UK model. But if it had one, I would think that feature would get top billing for sure.

If the US-spec STi gets a 2.5L engine, I will wear a pink...err, cherry blossom red....dress for a week.

Now where's shirokuma (Paul Hansen) when you need him? Probably enjoying his New Year in Japan.

Last edited by Zola; 12-31-2002 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 12-31-2002, 01:56 PM   #45
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


Not in the Forester lineup. They're all 2.0 engines.

http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/index.html

Bob
YES, they did for the last forester model, not for 2003.
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Old 12-31-2002, 02:05 PM   #46
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As far as that statement goes remember the old rule- "What I tell you three times is true." For those of that cant smell it that was pure unadulterated sarcasm. Just because someone claims to be in the know doesnt mean that they are. My personal vote for the tag on the back of the car: 2.5KD (keep dreamin)
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Old 12-31-2002, 02:46 PM   #47
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didnt see this mentioned here so let me school those that do not know....the "22b" does not stand for the engine spec from what i know, its subarus clever attempt to adorn the subaru WRC rally team, 22b = 555. the '555' is translated into 22b in hex-decimal, one of the computer languages

anyhow about the 2.5 sti on the horizon who knows, its all rumor and speculation but dont rule it out just yet, north america may get a surprise some examples are the z32 fairlady and the supra that were fairly more powerful then their japanese brethren.

it doesnt matter to me waht comes here as long as its finally an STi

cheers
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Old 12-31-2002, 02:55 PM   #48
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I tend to believe there is, in fact, a chance that it could be a 2.5 liter. One big reason recently is that tape over the model designation on the back of the test mule in Alaska. I mean, the brembos, the wing, the big meaty tires and wheels, everybody knows that's all Sti, but they put tape over the emblem? Seems strange to me.

Jim
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Old 12-31-2002, 03:08 PM   #49
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...

Quote:
Originally posted by HOKWRX


YES, they did for the last forester model, not for 2003.
That link that I posted is for vehicles now on sale in Japan. There has been no announcement, that I'm aware of of any 2.5 Forester for Japanese consumption. That doesn't mean there won't be one, but nothing has been announced as of yet.

Bob
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Old 12-31-2002, 03:28 PM   #50
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Isn't there a displacement restriction in WRC? That would be why the EVO also has a 2.0L engine and no one has bothered to just increase displacement to increase horsepower before? I can see the reasoning behind putting a 2.5 turbo in an Outback or Forester, but is it really worth it for Subaru to go tooling up to just put it in one car such as the STi?? The 22B wasn't a huge production run car like the one they likely will be sending here.
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