The air/water intercooler thead - Page 4

blackpearl44 · 10-30-2011, 12:51 AM

Hey SVYNX, Can you PM me on the kit you used.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

jaxscuby · 10-30-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistairh

That's exactly what I'm thinking as well.

I'm kind of curious if I could upgrade to a 35R from my 3076R and get more HP, and be well on my way to spoolin' by ~3300 RPM.

first parts maybe yes..

second part..no

svynx · 11-22-2011, 03:23 PM

Done. Dirty, but done.

Turbineguy · 11-27-2011, 10:28 PM

Don't visit here much but guess I should do so more often.

Looks like some good progress is being made with AWIC setups since I did mine. It's been running like clockwork for well over a year now and I honestly would not go back to either a top mount or front mount air to air. It's nice to be able to get up in the morning, see what to high temp for the day will be, and know exactly what the IC outlet temps will be. It's extremely consistent and totally reliable assuming quality parts are used in a few key areas. The pump is the best place to spend money and the Meziere is about the best around.

There was some concern earlier in the thread about the bumper beam. I removed mine in the interest of time savings to get the system up and running and at the time I also didn't have all the stuff I needed to mod either the stocker or the JDM beam I have. My preference would be to at least have the JDM beam in place and next time I have the bumper cover off I intend to make the mods necessary to mount the exchanger to it.

There was also mention of pump failure. Ive intentionally left the pump off for my 20 mile commute to work to see what the effects are. By the time I got to work the IC outlet temps were about 40 degrees over ambient. I still have the stock hood scoop so I'm sure there's a good bit of airflow from that to help keep the core temps down. However there's so much thermal mass in an aluminum core full of water that it takes quite a bit of time to get alot of heat into the system. If the pump failed while I was running the car hard it would heat up faster but it's not like a meth pump failure where it's instant issues. Assuming you have a way of monitoring IC outlet temps there would be plenty of time to recognize the problem. I spent a month driving around with the core installed with water/meth and no water at all in the system and the water meth was enough to keep outlet temps well in check up to 15psi. The point is that the car is perfectly drivable with a busted pump and won't instantly blow up if it goes out.

I drilled a small hole in the center of the reservoir cap and put a tube in it to vent the system for temp changes. I ended up with water spots all over the reservoir which I figured out was the result of the water sloshing around. The fix was to add an aquarium airstone to the end of the tube and problem fixed. They even come in a nice blue color.

svynx · 11-28-2011, 12:02 AM

Thanks for your update Turbineguy. Glad to see it's working well after a year. I tried to have a vent tube on my system, but because of the way it is set up, I was unable to. I think that in my situation, I really don't need one. I figure since I have rubber hose (which will expand some) and a few air pockets (which can be compressed) I shouldn't have to worry much. The remote fill point in the pic is just a standard remote radiator fill point with a 9 (or 13) psi blow pressure. If things got to much, that would be the first thing to go. So far with the water temp going from about 45 degrees up to about 70, no problems yet. I do know that after driving, water comes out when I open the cap...usually only about a half cup though. Once I find a good/inexpensive temp gauges, I'll be able to truly see how things are working. Then I need to find someone who is good with making circuit boards and have them make up a controller for the fans.

TPNORTH · 11-28-2011, 05:12 PM

does anyone have dyno charts of before and after effects? Im curious to see numbers!

speedyHAM · 12-18-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPNORTH

does anyone have dyno charts of before and after effects? Im curious to see numbers!

Before

After.

The only real change between tunes was the AWIC setup. Water temp was around 85 degrees during the tune. The previous setup was a stock '02 WRX intercooler. I think most of the differences came from the reduced restriction across the IC. The best part for me is that this is an autoX car, so between runs I load the reservoir with ice and have no problems with heat soak.

Gluis · 02-07-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svynx

So far with the water temp going from about 45 degrees up to about 70, no problems yet.

Pardon the ignorance, but are we talking Celsius or Fahrenheit here? 45ºF seems really cold (7º Celsius) I wouldn't see that even as ambient on the coldest night where I live.

I'll be posting some pics of my AWIC setup soon btw.

Regards,

GS

svynx · 02-07-2012, 02:05 PM

Fahrenheit. At the time, 45 degrees was the ambient temp in the morning.

Gluis · 02-09-2012, 01:38 AM

I see. I will never, ever see 45 degrees Fahrenheit over here. I guess that's one of the perks of living in a tropical island ;-)

We might see 71F at the coldest night of the year.

Regards,

GS

svynx · 02-09-2012, 08:28 AM

If that's true, then a AWIC would do wonders for you. Depending on which turbo you have/go with (along with a few other things), your intake manifold temps could be right above ambient. No AAIC works that well that I know of.

rallycar2001 · 02-09-2012, 01:25 PM

PLUS your loading it with ice... out of curiosity, how cold does it get right when you put ice in? and for how short a period? its gotta melt quick... well idk, i guess im thinking out here in az lmao, 110* summer day

Gluis · 02-09-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svynx

If that's true, then a AWIC would do wonders for you. Depending on which turbo you have/go with (along with a few other things), your intake manifold temps could be right above ambient. No AAIC works that well that I know of.

Mine is already installed and running, I just don't have good pictures of it. I will take some to post next week hopefully.

I can measure Post intercooler Air temp, but don't have water temp sensor. I thought that would be more useful.

Best regards,

GS

svynx · 02-10-2012, 08:39 AM

Gluis: Post up some of those temps. I'd be interested in seeing what it is after a few good pulls. Ambient temp would be helpful as well.

wrxdrvr · 02-10-2012, 12:22 PM

I too am interested in IAT at the throttle, for normal driving and pedal to metal runs of at least 3 to 4 gears...

Gluis · 02-11-2012, 11:10 AM

I'm traveling now.
I'll log and post them as soon as I return home.

GS

Gluis · 02-12-2012, 05:18 AM

I'm traveling now.
I'll log and post them as soon as I return home.

GS

Supraru · 02-26-2012, 10:00 PM

Subscribed. Can't wait to run this set up on my Rsti. I have no intentions of going fmic and want to be as efficient as possible.

k mier · 03-09-2012, 10:37 PM

BW83-75, think 35r sized turbo. Summer days get hot and humid here plus all the heat radiating from the road surface. What do you guys think, will the ic, 15x6.5x6, fit between the throttle body and firewall, will the heat exchanger fit without cutting the bumper beam to pieces?

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...94cb196e0bff26

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...94cb196e0bff26

-Nic- · 03-10-2012, 12:56 PM

Can't really comment on the core, as I used a type 14, but with proper routing of pipes it seems like it should fit. Type 101 exchanger fits very nicely though, with some cutting of the bumper beam. You can even fit fans behind it still. Here's some pics of my setup, although the engine is not yet in the car.

Hope these help some of you out. I have more if anyone has any questions.

k mier · 03-10-2012, 03:10 PM

Looks nice, yes that helps. The heat exchanger looks about the same size as most front mount IC's.

The type 14 core says 700cfm, would that be small for a 35r sized turbo?

-Nic- · 03-10-2012, 05:56 PM

35R is a 65lb/min wheel, which is roughly 855lb/min. So if you plan on maxing out the turbo, the intercooler may become a restriction. At lower boost levels it would be perfectly fine however. How much power/boost are you planning to run?

k mier · 03-10-2012, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Nic-

35R is a 65lb/min wheel, which is roughly 855lb/min. So if you plan on maxing out the turbo, the intercooler may become a restriction. At lower boost levels it would be perfectly fine however. How much power/boost are you planning to run?

BW83-75 single scroll, just a little bigger than a 35r, not much information on here about that turbo but it should be in the upper 500's on e85. Looking at type 26, good to 1200cfm, think it will fit between the firewall and throttle body, fingers crossed.

FWIW, it looks like a water IC may be considerably cheaper than a quality front mount, plus the possible spool benefit.

Sent frozenboostdotcom an email asking for any information pertaining to water IC setups on a Subaru, we'll see what they have to say.

-Nic- · 03-11-2012, 03:28 PM

I wouldn't say considerably cheaper, but it certainly has it's benefits. More consistent IAT's, shorter charge piping, faster spool, etc. If you take a look at my setup, I only have one charge pipe, and it is less than a foot long. I don't know how much shorter you could make it. I know a lot of people say the lag is negligible with a front mount, but I have a hard time believing how ever many feet of piping that is with a bunch of bends in it is as efficient as these setups.

wrxhard · 03-17-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Nic-

...but I have a hard time believing how ever many feet of piping that is with a bunch of bends in it is as efficient as these setups.

That's what bothers me. There's here-tell around the camp fire that you lose 1% for every 90* the air has to turn, IIRC.

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10-30-2011, 12:51 AM	#76
blackpearl44 Scooby Newbie Member#: 272581 Join Date: Feb 2011 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: NH Vehicle: 2018 WRX STI GREY	Hey SVYNX, Can you PM me on the kit you used. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

11-22-2011, 03:23 PM	#78
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	Done. Dirty, but done.

11-27-2011, 10:28 PM	#79
Turbineguy Scooby Newbie Member#: 99889 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Louisiana Vehicle: '06 STI WRB	Don't visit here much but guess I should do so more often. Looks like some good progress is being made with AWIC setups since I did mine. It's been running like clockwork for well over a year now and I honestly would not go back to either a top mount or front mount air to air. It's nice to be able to get up in the morning, see what to high temp for the day will be, and know exactly what the IC outlet temps will be. It's extremely consistent and totally reliable assuming quality parts are used in a few key areas. The pump is the best place to spend money and the Meziere is about the best around. There was some concern earlier in the thread about the bumper beam. I removed mine in the interest of time savings to get the system up and running and at the time I also didn't have all the stuff I needed to mod either the stocker or the JDM beam I have. My preference would be to at least have the JDM beam in place and next time I have the bumper cover off I intend to make the mods necessary to mount the exchanger to it. There was also mention of pump failure. Ive intentionally left the pump off for my 20 mile commute to work to see what the effects are. By the time I got to work the IC outlet temps were about 40 degrees over ambient. I still have the stock hood scoop so I'm sure there's a good bit of airflow from that to help keep the core temps down. However there's so much thermal mass in an aluminum core full of water that it takes quite a bit of time to get alot of heat into the system. If the pump failed while I was running the car hard it would heat up faster but it's not like a meth pump failure where it's instant issues. Assuming you have a way of monitoring IC outlet temps there would be plenty of time to recognize the problem. I spent a month driving around with the core installed with water/meth and no water at all in the system and the water meth was enough to keep outlet temps well in check up to 15psi. The point is that the car is perfectly drivable with a busted pump and won't instantly blow up if it goes out. I drilled a small hole in the center of the reservoir cap and put a tube in it to vent the system for temp changes. I ended up with water spots all over the reservoir which I figured out was the result of the water sloshing around. The fix was to add an aquarium airstone to the end of the tube and problem fixed. They even come in a nice blue color.

11-28-2011, 12:02 AM	#80
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	Thanks for your update Turbineguy. Glad to see it's working well after a year. I tried to have a vent tube on my system, but because of the way it is set up, I was unable to. I think that in my situation, I really don't need one. I figure since I have rubber hose (which will expand some) and a few air pockets (which can be compressed) I shouldn't have to worry much. The remote fill point in the pic is just a standard remote radiator fill point with a 9 (or 13) psi blow pressure. If things got to much, that would be the first thing to go. So far with the water temp going from about 45 degrees up to about 70, no problems yet. I do know that after driving, water comes out when I open the cap...usually only about a half cup though. Once I find a good/inexpensive temp gauges, I'll be able to truly see how things are working. Then I need to find someone who is good with making circuit boards and have them make up a controller for the fans.

11-28-2011, 05:12 PM	#81
TPNORTH Scooby Specialist Member#: 210741 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Tampabay,FL Vehicle: 2002 WRX WRB	does anyone have dyno charts of before and after effects? Im curious to see numbers!

02-07-2012, 02:05 PM	#84
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	Fahrenheit. At the time, 45 degrees was the ambient temp in the morning.

02-09-2012, 01:38 AM	#85
Gluis Scooby Newbie Member#: 245584 Join Date: Apr 2010 Chapter/Region: International Location: Margarita Island, Venezuela Vehicle: 07 Impreza WRX STI	I see. I will never, ever see 45 degrees Fahrenheit over here. I guess that's one of the perks of living in a tropical island ;-) We might see 71F at the coldest night of the year. Regards, GS

02-09-2012, 08:28 AM	#86
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	If that's true, then a AWIC would do wonders for you. Depending on which turbo you have/go with (along with a few other things), your intake manifold temps could be right above ambient. No AAIC works that well that I know of.

02-09-2012, 01:25 PM	#87
rallycar2001 Scooby Newbie Member#: 238947 Join Date: Feb 2010	PLUS your loading it with ice... out of curiosity, how cold does it get right when you put ice in? and for how short a period? its gotta melt quick... well idk, i guess im thinking out here in az lmao, 110* summer day

02-10-2012, 08:39 AM	#89
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	Gluis: Post up some of those temps. I'd be interested in seeing what it is after a few good pulls. Ambient temp would be helpful as well.

02-10-2012, 12:22 PM	#90
wrxdrvr Scooby Specialist Member#: 79222 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: W. Canada Location: Canada BC Vehicle: '09 STi 297.5 WHP Blue	I too am interested in IAT at the throttle, for normal driving and pedal to metal runs of at least 3 to 4 gears...

02-11-2012, 11:10 AM	#91
Gluis Scooby Newbie Member#: 245584 Join Date: Apr 2010 Chapter/Region: International Location: Margarita Island, Venezuela Vehicle: 07 Impreza WRX STI	I'm traveling now. I'll log and post them as soon as I return home. GS

02-12-2012, 05:18 AM	#92
Gluis Scooby Newbie Member#: 245584 Join Date: Apr 2010 Chapter/Region: International Location: Margarita Island, Venezuela Vehicle: 07 Impreza WRX STI	I'm traveling now. I'll log and post them as soon as I return home. GS

02-26-2012, 10:00 PM	#93
Supraru Scooby Specialist Member#: 23313 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Collegeville,Pa Vehicle: 99' 2.5Rs black	Subscribed. Can't wait to run this set up on my Rsti. I have no intentions of going fmic and want to be as efficient as possible.

03-09-2012, 10:37 PM	#94
k mier Scooby Specialist Member#: 98000 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MO Vehicle: 05 sti e85@420hp	BW83-75, think 35r sized turbo. Summer days get hot and humid here plus all the heat radiating from the road surface. What do you guys think, will the ic, 15x6.5x6, fit between the throttle body and firewall, will the heat exchanger fit without cutting the bumper beam to pieces? http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...94cb196e0bff26 http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...94cb196e0bff26

03-10-2012, 12:56 PM	#95
-Nic- Scooby Newbie Member#: 291154 Join Date: Aug 2011 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Denmark, WI Vehicle: 2004 STi WRB	Can't really comment on the core, as I used a type 14, but with proper routing of pipes it seems like it should fit. Type 101 exchanger fits very nicely though, with some cutting of the bumper beam. You can even fit fans behind it still. Here's some pics of my setup, although the engine is not yet in the car. Hope these help some of you out. I have more if anyone has any questions.

03-10-2012, 03:10 PM	#96
k mier Scooby Specialist Member#: 98000 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MO Vehicle: 05 sti e85@420hp	Looks nice, yes that helps. The heat exchanger looks about the same size as most front mount IC's. The type 14 core says 700cfm, would that be small for a 35r sized turbo?

03-10-2012, 05:56 PM	#97
-Nic- Scooby Newbie Member#: 291154 Join Date: Aug 2011 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Denmark, WI Vehicle: 2004 STi WRB	35R is a 65lb/min wheel, which is roughly 855lb/min. So if you plan on maxing out the turbo, the intercooler may become a restriction. At lower boost levels it would be perfectly fine however. How much power/boost are you planning to run?

03-11-2012, 03:28 PM	#99
-Nic- Scooby Newbie Member#: 291154 Join Date: Aug 2011 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Denmark, WI Vehicle: 2004 STi WRB	I wouldn't say considerably cheaper, but it certainly has it's benefits. More consistent IAT's, shorter charge piping, faster spool, etc. If you take a look at my setup, I only have one charge pipe, and it is less than a foot long. I don't know how much shorter you could make it. I know a lot of people say the lag is negligible with a front mount, but I have a hard time believing how ever many feet of piping that is with a bunch of bends in it is as efficient as these setups.