Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2001, 10:40 AM   #1
bliu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5268
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
03 Honda Blue Egg
Toyota Silver Shoe

Default Rally de Corse

not sure who 'watches' the rallies live on such sites as Rally-Live , but it's on hold currently, due to makinen's big off on SS5. it seems he had a big wreck, his co-driver was airlifted to a hospital, and the officials are deciding what to do with SS5 times for the rest of the field. not to be a poor sport, but that leaves only mcrae and gronholm for burns to catch on this rally ... more news available at World Rally News , too. seems the tarmac ringers are out for blood again, with puras taking wins on SS2,3 and panizzi taking wins on SS1,4.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
bliu is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-19-2001, 11:56 AM   #2
10th Warrior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2230
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toronto these days
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS
Silverthorn, PGT #671

Default

Quote:
Having hit the rails surrounding the road the four-time
world champions barrelled into a gorge before catching fire.
geez, it sounds like a cartoon almost. they say the co-driver was just taken to the hospital for an overview and that its nothing serious. lets hope not anyway. they canceled the stage.


on a better note, after ss4, solberg is in 5th, the highest ranked non-frog car. of course, burns is sandbagging back in 14th. hell, even martin is in 7th. where's the speed burns? mcrae is in 12th, btw.

all i can say is:
GO JESUS!!!!
10th Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 12:26 PM   #3
Shik
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 132
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Cold in winter, hot in summer
Vehicle:
GDA- D, GDA-A, VAG-A
GDA-A - ShinjiTuned

Default

At the moment, a golden oportunity for Burns. Hopefully he gets things going and keeps the car together(what's left of it). Any points will be good ones as Burns will have a good shot at the remaining rallies.

Seems both Tommi and Freddy are having major problems again with the Lancer WRC. Makes you wonder if the new car had more then a little bit to do with Tommi's departure( probably still way too early to make judgements about it though). Hope all is well with Risto

Hopefully Prodrive signs Petter to a 20 year contract the next time around
Shik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 12:30 PM   #4
10th Warrior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2230
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toronto these days
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS
Silverthorn, PGT #671

Default

with makinen and sainz out of it already, it leaves a great oppurtunity for either burns or mcrae. they both have managed to stop and smell the daisies all the while damaging there cars they are within 2 seconds of each other, but they are both over 2 minutes back already. we shall see.
10th Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 01:06 PM   #5
Thug
Precious ❄
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norfeast
Default

I think McRae probably has a better chance of winning this one seeing as the Ford has the short wheelbase. But honestly, I dont think either of them is gonna win. Id say look for one of the Peugeots to finish atop the list. Delecour perhaps?
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 01:54 PM   #6
grimlock
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2683
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 STi 5-Door
White

Default

Well, one thing's for sure. Francois will be on "maximum attack."

GOOOOO PETTER!
grimlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 03:31 PM   #7
10th Warrior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2230
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toronto these days
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS
Silverthorn, PGT #671

Default

i don't think delecour has the speed. my money is still on jesus puras, and if not him, then panizzi, who is the tarmac specialist for puegot.
10th Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 03:33 PM   #8
Thug
Precious ❄
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norfeast
Default

Yeah, Delecour appears to be a decent ways back in this rally. Odd because he was always one of the fastest on tarmac.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 03:38 PM   #9
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Wink

keep your eyes on Burns and McCrash...

likely they'll be moving up the overall list... quickly...

j.
www.subiegal.com
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 03:45 PM   #10
bbbradley
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7715
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Newton, MA
Vehicle:
2000 Miata
BRG-ish

Default

Something doesn't make sense to me... One reports says the car "hit the rails surrounding the road the four-time
world champions barrelled into a gorge before catching fire." But it also says "Co-driver Risto Mannisenmaki however elected to remain in the car, awaiting assistance from the medical team before being helped from the car with back pains." So, either Risto is fireproof or one of the reports is wrong (or good ol Tommi is handy with the fire extinguisher, but he never makes mentioin of it...)



/bill
bbbradley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 03:48 PM   #11
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by y2k4door
I think McRae probably has a better chance of winning this one seeing as the Ford has the short wheelbase. But honestly, I dont think either of them is gonna win. Id say look for one of the Peugeots to finish atop the list. Delecour perhaps?
Looks can be deceptive!!

Wheelbase shortest first.

Peugeot 2.468m
Hyundai 2.475m
Mitsubishi 2.510m
Skoda 2.512m
Subaru 2.520m
Citroen 2.555m
Ford 2.635m

The ford is the longest wheelbase which is one reason why its not too competitive on events like corsica and san remo.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 03:50 PM   #12
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by bbbradley
Something doesn't make sense to me... One reports says the car "hit the rails surrounding the road the four-time
world champions barrelled into a gorge before catching fire." But it also says "Co-driver Risto Mannisenmaki however elected to remain in the car, awaiting assistance from the medical team before being helped from the car with back pains." So, either Risto is fireproof or one of the reports is wrong (or good ol Tommi is handy with the fire extinguisher, but he never makes mentioin of it...)



/bill
I'll tell you in an hour as its on TV here soon.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 04:02 PM   #13
10th Warrior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2230
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toronto these days
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS
Silverthorn, PGT #671

Default

here's a pic from rally-live of the accident.




its amazing either of them is ok. geezzz...
10th Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 04:42 PM   #14
Thug
Precious ❄
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norfeast
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by johnfelstead


Looks can be deceptive!!

Wheelbase shortest first.

Peugeot 2.468m
Hyundai 2.475m
Mitsubishi 2.510m
Skoda 2.512m
Subaru 2.520m
Citroen 2.555m
Ford 2.635m

The ford is the longest wheelbase which is one reason why its not too competitive on events like corsica and san remo.
wow, ive been had.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 04:45 PM   #15
Thug
Precious ❄
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norfeast
Default

That doesnt even look like Tommi's worst off though. Back in '97(i think) he hit a bull and went about 100km down a cliff.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 05:20 PM   #16
bliu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5268
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
03 Honda Blue Egg
Toyota Silver Shoe

Question short wheelbase...

i'm wondering about the whole 'short wheelbase theory' - why is it that they say the short wheelbased cars have an advantage on the tarmac courses? or at least the -supposed- short wheelbased cars, such as peugeot and citroen? or is it just that those teams employ tarmac specialists? or perhaps does the fact that those cars are hatchbacks have anything to do with it?

(apologize for all the questions, but i don't think there's any point to hiding my newbie-ness here! )

any info is much appreciated.
bliu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 05:23 PM   #17
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by y2k4door
That doesnt even look like Tommi's worst off though. Back in '97(i think) he hit a bull and went about 100km down a cliff.
wow, thats what i call a drop. 100Km!!!!! ahahaha

Just watched the footage. Ouch!!!!!

the front wheel asembly was ripped from the car and lay in the road on fire.

That picture doesnt show it but the car is teetering on the edge of a 100 ft drop. The reason Risto didnt get extracted immediately was cos if they worked on the car it would have dropped off the edge!

They had to wait for a land rover with a tow rope to stabalise the car.

They airlifted him to hospital but both are OK, just sore backs.

Now to the rally. You can forget Colin, he is not a happy bunny, slagging the car on TV for being too slow. He isnt trying at all now, no way will he make the points.

Burns is trying, he will still need some luck to make up so much time. He is losing a golden oportunity now to score big, he misheard a pace not and stuffed the front in earlier, dropping a lot of time.

Scary rally, lots of nasty crashes. Arai ended up on his roof. Petter is driving well. He hit a mountain side when blinded by the sun but got away with it lightly.

Carlos's was weird. They hit a rock in the road, that got lodged under the sumpguard and they drove for a couple hundred yards with no steering hardly as the car sort of skidded along on this big mother of a rock. That damaged the sump and the engine expired.

I wonder whats gonna happen next?
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 05:33 PM   #18
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default Re: short wheelbase...

Quote:
Originally posted by bliu
i'm wondering about the whole 'short wheelbase theory' - why is it that they say the short wheelbased cars have an advantage on the tarmac courses? or at least the -supposed- short wheelbased cars, such as peugeot and citroen? or is it just that those teams employ tarmac specialists? or perhaps does the fact that those cars are hatchbacks have anything to do with it?

(apologize for all the questions, but i don't think there's any point to hiding my newbie-ness here! )

any info is much appreciated.
Wheelbase isnt a tar/gravel issue so much as a change of direction issue.

The longer the wheelbase the more stable the car, however that makes it less agile to change of direction. If you want a car with great high speed stability you go long wheelbase. If you want max agility you go short wheelbase.

Corsica and san remo are very very tight roads with lots of tight corners, many flowing from one to the next. Thats perfect for short wheelbase, bad for long wheelbase.

On gravel you are better off with a more stable car as you can make it more unstable at will due to low grip levels but you dont want it twitching about constantly or your gona be bolloxed trying to control it.

Certain drivers also excell on diferent surfaces. The french in the main rally on tar. Brits and scandanavians rally on gravel at home.

Dont forget also, Citroen are concentrating on tar this year, they are not doing the full WRC so they should be exceptional on tarmac.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 05:42 PM   #19
bliu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5268
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
03 Honda Blue Egg
Toyota Silver Shoe

Talking

john-
the promptness of your replies is starting to scare me!

thanks as always for the willingness to educate a newbie ... i must admit i am a bit jealous of your 'instantaneous' coverage - instantaneous relative to our 2 week delay stuff.

...but you left out one of my questions ... heh. does the 'balance' of the hatchbacks make them handle differently than the sedans? i guess what i'm getting at is which affects the car's handling more - wheelbase or weight distribution (?). sorry if i'm sounding like i don't know -anything-, but perhaps it's not too far from the truth...
bliu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2001, 06:26 PM   #20
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default

Hatchback/saloon used to make more diference in GroupA and still does in some GroupN cars because the suspension layout is usually diferent in a hatch to a saloon with respect to damper angles. WRC cars have done away with that idiosincrecy.

Saloons used to have an advantage in torsional rigidity over hatches because of the rear bulkheads in a saloon but that isnt really an issue either now with the advances in cage design.

As to weight distribution. The main name of the game there is to keep the maximum weight posible within the wheelbase and have a small an amount of weight external to it. That aids change of direction in particular.

You also want a low centre of gravity. Hence the canted back engines and low down transmision systems. The Impreza has an inherently good design from the CofG perspective and gearbox positioning being a longitudinal engine.

The WRC cars are using very clever transmisions with the main gerbox now in a longitudinal position even when the engine is transverse.

I looked at building a Focus home built WRC car a couple of years ago using the running gear from our Escort Cosworth but the more i looked at the shell the more it didnt make sense. There is a huge amount of weight outside the wheelbase on that shell, especially up front due to the design of the chasis. It's very strong but jeez is it heavy. I can see why it took MSport so long to get the Focus competitive.

The new Impreza is the same phylosophy up front as the Focus. Its all to do with crash testing for the road cars. Subaru have done a great job to get the car up to speed so quickly i think because the shell is very diferent even though the running gear is similar.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2001, 10:51 AM   #21
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default End of dat 2!

1. 15 PURAS-MARTI Citroen Xsa A8 2h47'24"700 91.3 km/h 1 1
2. 16 PANIZZI-PANIZZI Peugeot 206 A8 2h47'48"200 + 00'23"50 2 2
3. 2 AURIOL-GIRAUDET Peugeot 206 A8 2h48'14"600 + 00'49"90 3 3
4. 6 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impr A8 2h50'03"100 + 02'38"40 4 4
5. 17 DELECOUR-GRATAL Ford Focus A8 2h50'47"300 + 03'22"60 5 5
6. 18 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impr A8 2h51'05"100 + 03'40"40 6 6
7. 5 BURNS-REID Subaru Impr A8 2h51'43"900 + 04'19"20 7 7
8. 29 ROVANPERA-PIETI Peugeot 206 A8 2h52'49"300 + 05'24"60 8 8
9. 9 LIATTI-CASSINA Hyundai Acc A8 2h52'59"300 + 05'34"60 9 9
10. 10 A.McRAE-SENIOR Hyundai Acc A8 2h53'25"000 + 06'00"30 10 10
11. 25 MOERTL-EICHHORN Subaru Impr A8 2h54'56"300 + 07'31"60 11 11
12. 4 C.McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus A8 2h56'04"000 + 08'39"30 12 12
13. 38 WEARDEN-AGNEW Peugeot 206 A8 2h56'51"100 + 09'26"40 13 13
14. 8 LOIX-SMEETS Mitsubishi A8 2h58'16"400 + 10'51"70 14 14
15. 53 LOEB-ELENA Citroen Sax A6 3h00'20"200 + 12'55"50 15 1
16. 52 DALLAVILLA-BERN Fiat Punto A6 3h00'38"200 + 13'13"50 16 2
17. 55 McSHEA-ORR Citroen Sax A6 3h04'23"600 + 16'58"90 17 3


McRae was shooting up the order but had a bad last 2 stages due to power steering failure. So i think he is out of this. It's been raining on some stages which has helped the Fords in particular but the last few were dry and the normal order resumed.

If things stay as they are then Martin will be asked to drop behind Burns so he scores some points.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2001, 03:18 PM   #22
10th Warrior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2230
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Toronto these days
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS
Silverthorn, PGT #671

Default

Risto is apparently going to under go back surgery next week, though he is in pretty good shape.

solberg continues to impress me, more and more with each rally.
10th Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2001, 06:42 PM   #23
Shik
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 132
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Cold in winter, hot in summer
Vehicle:
GDA- D, GDA-A, VAG-A
GDA-A - ShinjiTuned

Default

4. Solberg
6. Martin
7. Burns


Team orders to come maybe? I've heard of one team mate slowing, but two?!
Shik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2001, 07:16 PM   #24
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2123 JDM STi
Black

Default

It's illegal to swap drivers with team orders so i cant see petter slowing as that would be indisputable. Martin defo will drop back though. Subaru wouldnt drop manufacturer points for Burns so unless Delecour drops behind it wont even be a slight posibility.

I have seen two slow, but that was back in the Lancia S4 GroupB era.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2001, 01:31 AM   #25
Shik
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 132
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Cold in winter, hot in summer
Vehicle:
GDA- D, GDA-A, VAG-A
GDA-A - ShinjiTuned

Default Mr. WRC :)

Thanks John, that makes things a bit clearer.

BTW, just for the heck of it since you are in the thick of things over there and have a wealth of knowledge pertaining to the WRC, what are your opinions of Petter and Martin. Do you think they can consistenly run with the front-runners next year(at least Petter)?
Shik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Richard Burns Tour de Corse 1999 model -- horribly defective Eyesoreracing Accessories & Misc 9 07-05-2009 08:10 PM
Rally of 10,000 bends-Tour de Corse talk/results Weasel 555 Motorsports 17 10-14-2007 07:18 PM
Round 4 WRC: Rallye de France - Tour de Corse chaddeus Motorsports 2 04-07-2006 03:31 PM
When is Tour de Corse rally rerun? edkwon Motorsports 1 03-20-2002 11:40 AM
Impreza to compete at Rally de Sanair DCRallyDave Canada Region Forum 0 04-02-2001 05:39 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.