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10-19-2001, 10:40 AM | #1 |
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Rally de Corse
not sure who 'watches' the rallies live on such sites as Rally-Live , but it's on hold currently, due to makinen's big off on SS5. it seems he had a big wreck, his co-driver was airlifted to a hospital, and the officials are deciding what to do with SS5 times for the rest of the field. not to be a poor sport, but that leaves only mcrae and gronholm for burns to catch on this rally ... more news available at World Rally News , too. seems the tarmac ringers are out for blood again, with puras taking wins on SS2,3 and panizzi taking wins on SS1,4.
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10-19-2001, 11:56 AM | #2 | |
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on a better note, after ss4, solberg is in 5th, the highest ranked non-frog car. of course, burns is sandbagging back in 14th. hell, even martin is in 7th. where's the speed burns? mcrae is in 12th, btw. all i can say is: GO JESUS!!!! |
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10-19-2001, 12:26 PM | #3 |
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At the moment, a golden oportunity for Burns. Hopefully he gets things going and keeps the car together(what's left of it). Any points will be good ones as Burns will have a good shot at the remaining rallies.
Seems both Tommi and Freddy are having major problems again with the Lancer WRC. Makes you wonder if the new car had more then a little bit to do with Tommi's departure( probably still way too early to make judgements about it though). Hope all is well with Risto Hopefully Prodrive signs Petter to a 20 year contract the next time around |
10-19-2001, 12:30 PM | #4 |
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with makinen and sainz out of it already, it leaves a great oppurtunity for either burns or mcrae. they both have managed to stop and smell the daisies all the while damaging there cars they are within 2 seconds of each other, but they are both over 2 minutes back already. we shall see.
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10-19-2001, 01:06 PM | #5 |
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I think McRae probably has a better chance of winning this one seeing as the Ford has the short wheelbase. But honestly, I dont think either of them is gonna win. Id say look for one of the Peugeots to finish atop the list. Delecour perhaps?
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10-19-2001, 01:54 PM | #6 |
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Well, one thing's for sure. Francois will be on "maximum attack."
GOOOOO PETTER! |
10-19-2001, 03:31 PM | #7 |
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i don't think delecour has the speed. my money is still on jesus puras, and if not him, then panizzi, who is the tarmac specialist for puegot.
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10-19-2001, 03:33 PM | #8 |
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Yeah, Delecour appears to be a decent ways back in this rally. Odd because he was always one of the fastest on tarmac.
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10-19-2001, 03:38 PM | #9 |
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keep your eyes on Burns and McCrash...
likely they'll be moving up the overall list... quickly... j. www.subiegal.com |
10-19-2001, 03:45 PM | #10 |
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Something doesn't make sense to me... One reports says the car "hit the rails surrounding the road the four-time
world champions barrelled into a gorge before catching fire." But it also says "Co-driver Risto Mannisenmaki however elected to remain in the car, awaiting assistance from the medical team before being helped from the car with back pains." So, either Risto is fireproof or one of the reports is wrong (or good ol Tommi is handy with the fire extinguisher, but he never makes mentioin of it...) /bill |
10-19-2001, 03:48 PM | #11 | |
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Wheelbase shortest first. Peugeot 2.468m Hyundai 2.475m Mitsubishi 2.510m Skoda 2.512m Subaru 2.520m Citroen 2.555m Ford 2.635m The ford is the longest wheelbase which is one reason why its not too competitive on events like corsica and san remo. |
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10-19-2001, 03:50 PM | #12 | |
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10-19-2001, 04:02 PM | #13 |
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here's a pic from rally-live of the accident.
its amazing either of them is ok. geezzz... |
10-19-2001, 04:42 PM | #14 | |
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10-19-2001, 04:45 PM | #15 |
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That doesnt even look like Tommi's worst off though. Back in '97(i think) he hit a bull and went about 100km down a cliff.
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10-19-2001, 05:20 PM | #16 |
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short wheelbase...
i'm wondering about the whole 'short wheelbase theory' - why is it that they say the short wheelbased cars have an advantage on the tarmac courses? or at least the -supposed- short wheelbased cars, such as peugeot and citroen? or is it just that those teams employ tarmac specialists? or perhaps does the fact that those cars are hatchbacks have anything to do with it?
(apologize for all the questions, but i don't think there's any point to hiding my newbie-ness here! ) any info is much appreciated. |
10-19-2001, 05:23 PM | #17 | |
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Just watched the footage. Ouch!!!!! the front wheel asembly was ripped from the car and lay in the road on fire. That picture doesnt show it but the car is teetering on the edge of a 100 ft drop. The reason Risto didnt get extracted immediately was cos if they worked on the car it would have dropped off the edge! They had to wait for a land rover with a tow rope to stabalise the car. They airlifted him to hospital but both are OK, just sore backs. Now to the rally. You can forget Colin, he is not a happy bunny, slagging the car on TV for being too slow. He isnt trying at all now, no way will he make the points. Burns is trying, he will still need some luck to make up so much time. He is losing a golden oportunity now to score big, he misheard a pace not and stuffed the front in earlier, dropping a lot of time. Scary rally, lots of nasty crashes. Arai ended up on his roof. Petter is driving well. He hit a mountain side when blinded by the sun but got away with it lightly. Carlos's was weird. They hit a rock in the road, that got lodged under the sumpguard and they drove for a couple hundred yards with no steering hardly as the car sort of skidded along on this big mother of a rock. That damaged the sump and the engine expired. I wonder whats gonna happen next? |
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10-19-2001, 05:33 PM | #18 | |
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Re: short wheelbase...
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The longer the wheelbase the more stable the car, however that makes it less agile to change of direction. If you want a car with great high speed stability you go long wheelbase. If you want max agility you go short wheelbase. Corsica and san remo are very very tight roads with lots of tight corners, many flowing from one to the next. Thats perfect for short wheelbase, bad for long wheelbase. On gravel you are better off with a more stable car as you can make it more unstable at will due to low grip levels but you dont want it twitching about constantly or your gona be bolloxed trying to control it. Certain drivers also excell on diferent surfaces. The french in the main rally on tar. Brits and scandanavians rally on gravel at home. Dont forget also, Citroen are concentrating on tar this year, they are not doing the full WRC so they should be exceptional on tarmac. |
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10-19-2001, 05:42 PM | #19 |
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john-
the promptness of your replies is starting to scare me! thanks as always for the willingness to educate a newbie ... i must admit i am a bit jealous of your 'instantaneous' coverage - instantaneous relative to our 2 week delay stuff. ...but you left out one of my questions ... heh. does the 'balance' of the hatchbacks make them handle differently than the sedans? i guess what i'm getting at is which affects the car's handling more - wheelbase or weight distribution (?). sorry if i'm sounding like i don't know -anything-, but perhaps it's not too far from the truth... |
10-19-2001, 06:26 PM | #20 |
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Hatchback/saloon used to make more diference in GroupA and still does in some GroupN cars because the suspension layout is usually diferent in a hatch to a saloon with respect to damper angles. WRC cars have done away with that idiosincrecy.
Saloons used to have an advantage in torsional rigidity over hatches because of the rear bulkheads in a saloon but that isnt really an issue either now with the advances in cage design. As to weight distribution. The main name of the game there is to keep the maximum weight posible within the wheelbase and have a small an amount of weight external to it. That aids change of direction in particular. You also want a low centre of gravity. Hence the canted back engines and low down transmision systems. The Impreza has an inherently good design from the CofG perspective and gearbox positioning being a longitudinal engine. The WRC cars are using very clever transmisions with the main gerbox now in a longitudinal position even when the engine is transverse. I looked at building a Focus home built WRC car a couple of years ago using the running gear from our Escort Cosworth but the more i looked at the shell the more it didnt make sense. There is a huge amount of weight outside the wheelbase on that shell, especially up front due to the design of the chasis. It's very strong but jeez is it heavy. I can see why it took MSport so long to get the Focus competitive. The new Impreza is the same phylosophy up front as the Focus. Its all to do with crash testing for the road cars. Subaru have done a great job to get the car up to speed so quickly i think because the shell is very diferent even though the running gear is similar. |
10-20-2001, 10:51 AM | #21 |
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End of dat 2!
1. 15 PURAS-MARTI Citroen Xsa A8 2h47'24"700 91.3 km/h 1 1
2. 16 PANIZZI-PANIZZI Peugeot 206 A8 2h47'48"200 + 00'23"50 2 2 3. 2 AURIOL-GIRAUDET Peugeot 206 A8 2h48'14"600 + 00'49"90 3 3 4. 6 SOLBERG-MILLS Subaru Impr A8 2h50'03"100 + 02'38"40 4 4 5. 17 DELECOUR-GRATAL Ford Focus A8 2h50'47"300 + 03'22"60 5 5 6. 18 MARTIN-PARK Subaru Impr A8 2h51'05"100 + 03'40"40 6 6 7. 5 BURNS-REID Subaru Impr A8 2h51'43"900 + 04'19"20 7 7 8. 29 ROVANPERA-PIETI Peugeot 206 A8 2h52'49"300 + 05'24"60 8 8 9. 9 LIATTI-CASSINA Hyundai Acc A8 2h52'59"300 + 05'34"60 9 9 10. 10 A.McRAE-SENIOR Hyundai Acc A8 2h53'25"000 + 06'00"30 10 10 11. 25 MOERTL-EICHHORN Subaru Impr A8 2h54'56"300 + 07'31"60 11 11 12. 4 C.McRAE-GRIST Ford Focus A8 2h56'04"000 + 08'39"30 12 12 13. 38 WEARDEN-AGNEW Peugeot 206 A8 2h56'51"100 + 09'26"40 13 13 14. 8 LOIX-SMEETS Mitsubishi A8 2h58'16"400 + 10'51"70 14 14 15. 53 LOEB-ELENA Citroen Sax A6 3h00'20"200 + 12'55"50 15 1 16. 52 DALLAVILLA-BERN Fiat Punto A6 3h00'38"200 + 13'13"50 16 2 17. 55 McSHEA-ORR Citroen Sax A6 3h04'23"600 + 16'58"90 17 3 McRae was shooting up the order but had a bad last 2 stages due to power steering failure. So i think he is out of this. It's been raining on some stages which has helped the Fords in particular but the last few were dry and the normal order resumed. If things stay as they are then Martin will be asked to drop behind Burns so he scores some points. |
10-20-2001, 03:18 PM | #22 |
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Risto is apparently going to under go back surgery next week, though he is in pretty good shape.
solberg continues to impress me, more and more with each rally. |
10-20-2001, 06:42 PM | #23 |
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4. Solberg
6. Martin 7. Burns Team orders to come maybe? I've heard of one team mate slowing, but two?! |
10-20-2001, 07:16 PM | #24 |
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It's illegal to swap drivers with team orders so i cant see petter slowing as that would be indisputable. Martin defo will drop back though. Subaru wouldnt drop manufacturer points for Burns so unless Delecour drops behind it wont even be a slight posibility.
I have seen two slow, but that was back in the Lancia S4 GroupB era. |
10-21-2001, 01:31 AM | #25 |
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Mr. WRC :)
Thanks John, that makes things a bit clearer.
BTW, just for the heck of it since you are in the thick of things over there and have a wealth of knowledge pertaining to the WRC, what are your opinions of Petter and Martin. Do you think they can consistenly run with the front-runners next year(at least Petter)? |
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