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04-26-2006, 11:41 PM | #76 |
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it will not void a warranty if you put a cat back on. its all bolt on parts.
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04-26-2006, 11:45 PM | #77 | |
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04-27-2006, 06:18 AM | #78 |
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alright thanks guys...i probably would have done it either way but now i feel better
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06-11-2006, 06:48 PM | #79 |
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Coming in late, here, folks, sorry, but I just noticed this topic and the statements made in the first few posts are not accurate. First, I own a 2005 that is WAY out of warranty through mods. Doesn't bother me, since I don't expect warranty coverage after I've violated the terms of the warranty.
This bunk about "they have to prove the modification caused the problem" is total bull. They don't have to prove anything. You don't have the right to modify your car and still expect warranty coverage - it's right in the manual, and you agreed by buying the car and accepting warranty coverage. One enthusiast to many others, I don't want to steer you wrong like some jailhouse lawyers here have. There's lots of things that can get covered after mods, it's all in how you act and handle the complaint and appointment. I've been racing cars a lot longer than I was a service manager, so I don't want to see people set up for failure by going into the dealership with an attitude, thinking they have the dealer (and the manufacturer) by the gonads, because you don't. I'll be glad to discuss things and to help folks get things handled properly, but I won't quote laws I have no clue of (as has been done) and won't blow smoke up your butts. Guiding people, who likely take forum information as the Gospel, without having the facts, is very irresponsible. Check my profile (website) if you have any questions about why I know what I'm talking about. Last edited by Jim Lewis; 06-11-2006 at 10:01 PM. |
06-11-2006, 07:26 PM | #80 |
Scooby Newbie
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For clarification, the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act of 1974, where the original information in the first post comes from, DOES state that (paraphrasing to save time, reading, and typing) a manufacturer of a product, when presented with a repair claim, and finding that the product was modified, must prove that the modification caused a failure if the manufacturer intends to claim that the modification caused the failure.
But, and a BIG BUT, is that the statute goes on to say that this only applies when the manufacturer of a product doesn't specifically state conditions for use and modifications. Every car manufacturer for vehicles sold in the US and Canada DOES stipulate that modifications, racing, abuse, etc, are not allowed and void warranties, either in component groups or as a whole. For example, if GE made a toaster (every product with a warranty is covered by the Mag-Moss Act) and it failed, but you added a "toast holder" to it, they'd have to prove that your toast holder caused an electrical failure, unless their warranty and owner's guide states that you can't attach stuff to the outside of yoru toaster... Since Subaru has covered their coporate butts....the rest is on you. |
06-11-2006, 11:31 PM | #81 | |
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Location: Mastro Subaru, Sanford FL
Vehicle:1996 Volvo 850 Turbo with mods :) |
Quote:
First of all, you contradict yourself. First you say that you shouldn't expect warranty coverage if you modify your car, then you say there are things that can get covered if you know how to handle it. Some of the people on here do know what they are talking about, and their word can be trusted. We do it everyday. According to "The Act", we have to prove the modification caused the failure, or the vehicle was abused, and a failure occured, otherwise we have to warranty the component(s). Granted, there are dealers out there that get away with just saying "you're screwed and you have to pay", but the legitimate ones don't do this, and I am one of them. I guarantee you, I have the facts, so do alot of other people that have posted in this thread. I live and breathe them literaly every day, all day. (It's 11:30, I'm online doing what I do everyday at work>...) I don't know what your post was really trying to say, and if it was an advertisement for your services, that's not what this thread is about. I don't know if you were a service manager for Subaru or not, but I know for a fact, Subaru is actually lenient when it comes to warranty. Try modifying another car and see what happens. You'd be laughed out the door. The information you know may be factual according to other brands, but not with Subaru. |
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06-12-2006, 12:43 AM | #82 |
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Subaru, lenient on warranty? Your funny.
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06-12-2006, 01:52 AM | #83 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
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Location: Mastro Subaru, Sanford FL
Vehicle:1996 Volvo 850 Turbo with mods :) |
Quote:
No, not funny, just know reality: I have a car in the shop now....all syncos gone. No reverse and grinds going into every gear. Mods on the car are straight pipe exhaust, blow off valve, turbo timer, air intake, and it looks like a boost controller has been removed. Vehicles rear tires are bald, transmission fluid is black and clutch is blued. Result: cover under warranty. Can't prove mods caused failure and with the vehicle having 55,000 miles, tires and clutch can be considered "normal" not abuse. That's lenient. I could name more, but its time to go to bed so I can deal with this again tomorrow. |
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06-12-2006, 09:20 AM | #84 |
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"I don't know what your post was really trying to say, and if it was an advertisement for your services, that's not what this thread is about"
I don't contract out to consumers - I have more work than I can handle already. Check this about Mag-Moss that you're overlooking: "the statute goes on to say that this only applies when the manufacturer of a product doesn't specifically state conditions for use and modifications. Every car manufacturer for vehicles sold in the US and Canada DOES stipulate that modifications, racing, abuse, etc, are not allowed and void warranties, either in component groups or as a whole." It's great if Subaru is lenient in some areas, great, but to set these people up with attitude that they can modify whatever they want and it's on Subaru to prove otherwise, that's just wrong. Subaru doesn't have to prove anything, except that you modified the car, and that they can "just say no". Perhaps you have a different type of dealer, allowing the transmission repair...I'd laugh you out of my shop if you drove it like that, just for information, and yes, I have been a Subaru service manager. I'm trying to help here, where I see incorrect information being handed out to a bunch of people who live and die by these forums - no other purpose at all, except to help enthiusiasts not kill their budgets because they have to pay for warranty repairs because someone here gave them the green light to do whatever they wanted to their vehicles. Who on this board is going to pay for non-warranty repairs after giving out this advice, and it turns out NOT to be the case at the person's specific dealership. Do you realize, that as an "advisor" on the boards, you're under liability when you "accept" responsibility for someone else's actions? You folks could be sued by one of these board members, just so you know, and I don't think that's your desire or intention. |
06-12-2006, 09:21 AM | #85 |
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"Granted, there are dealers out there that get away with just saying "you're screwed and you have to pay", but the legitimate ones don't do this, and I am one of them"
So, we're supposed to believe that since you WORK at a Subaru dealer, you don't get special treatment? Let's bring Johnny Ricer in with all those mods, report to SOA exactly what he's done to his car, and see if it gets covered. |
06-12-2006, 10:51 AM | #86 | |
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Jim, If I understand your point correctly, SOA would have legal ground for denying my entire warranty simply for installing an aftermarket radio? ....this is a bit suprising (or perhaps I misunderstood).
Also, regarding your comments on "the Act": Quote:
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06-12-2006, 11:13 AM | #87 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63616
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Mastro Subaru, Sanford FL
Vehicle:1996 Volvo 850 Turbo with mods :) |
NO WHERE in your warranty book does it say that you CANNOT modify your car. That is your personal choice. What it does say is:
Quote:
I don't know how long ago you were an advisor or manager, but things have changed. It used to be that if a modified vehicle came into the shop, we could refuse to work on it, or even deny warranty work, NO MATTER WHAT. We also had to document the modifications (racing numbers, abuse, etc). Not any more. BY LAW, we have to prove that modification caused the failure or else we have to warranty the repair. (Our rep even got in trouble for some of his prectices a few years ago). Please, instead of paraphrasing "the Act", please quote it word for word instead of going by what you think you remember. |
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06-12-2006, 12:44 PM | #88 |
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"Please, instead of paraphrasing "the Act", please quote it word for word instead of going by what you think you remember."
Wow, that's disrespectful. I work with this "Act" and state lemon laws every day, to the tune of over 7,500 cases in 5 years. I don't need to "think I remember". I was trying to help you here, but you want to run with incorrect information - so be it, and good luck. |
06-12-2006, 01:15 PM | #89 | |
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That aside, I would still be insterested in "discussing" your points on this issue if you wouldn't mind. |
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06-12-2006, 01:30 PM | #90 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Quote:
I'm not interested in debating or proving my position, simply because I see warranty claim denials and full-on warranty terminations every day as a course of business. It's just advice, take it or leave, but I'm not interested in arguing. |
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06-12-2006, 01:34 PM | #91 | |
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06-12-2006, 01:41 PM | #92 | ||
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06-12-2006, 02:43 PM | #93 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63616
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Mastro Subaru, Sanford FL
Vehicle:1996 Volvo 850 Turbo with mods :) |
Quote:
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06-12-2006, 02:53 PM | #94 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Quote:
The point that I've made that you guys are missing is that while Mag-Moss DOES indicate as you say about "proving" things, it ONLY applies in situations where the manufacturer doesn't cover this in their standard warranty policies. Essentially, if there's a grey area on this, the statute sides with the consumer - if not, it's cut and dried against the consumer. Also, any dealer can refuse service, or simply put off scheduling repairs if they think there's a problem. Once you mention "lawyer", they put you off indefinitely - who wants to bite into that? I work for lawyers who go after cases like this, as well as legitimate lemon law cases, and have had these discussions with manufacturer reps way too many times. |
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06-12-2006, 03:44 PM | #95 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
I guess my point is that I don’t see what was so wrong in the first few posts you mentioned to warrant your reaction. |
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06-12-2006, 04:49 PM | #96 |
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Magnusson-Moss is the very basis for the whole "proving the part caused the problem" issue - there's no other source for that requirement but Mag-Moss.
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06-12-2006, 06:31 PM | #97 |
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What the hell is going on here?
Can somebody give me some cliffnotes? |
06-13-2006, 09:43 AM | #98 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 39503
Join Date: Jul 2003
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The Moss Act is a joke.
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06-13-2006, 10:32 AM | #99 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63616
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Mastro Subaru, Sanford FL
Vehicle:1996 Volvo 850 Turbo with mods :) |
Quote:
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06-13-2006, 11:26 AM | #100 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Quote:
They're 98% victorious, so I'd say the Mag-Moss Act does what's it's supposed to do. It's backed by the UCC and Unfair Trade Practices Act. |
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