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Old 08-09-2003, 11:14 AM   #1
944 turbo guy
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Smile STI 8 spec-c lowering springs installed.......

After 8 months of searching and calling and surfing, I finally found some J-spec, STI 8 sport lowering springs. After chasing the Ups truck yesterday and almost sleeping through the door bell when dude did come back,..I finally had them in my hands,..(edited for content 8.25.04)

Install went very straight forward as it should when installing factory parts. The moment of truth was when TaiChih lowered the floor jack and the car' entire persona changed before my eyes, and began to look like the STi I saw in the Yokoham Japan video drifting and power sliding !!

After driving on RT 95 and some back roads and several exit ramps,..

A) ride quality doesnt suffer AT ALL !! Yes the car is lower so yes, the body roll, that was felt near the limit is reduced greatly.

B) there used to be a type of twitch that was felt in a long corner if you lifted or accelerated,..that is reduced now, and the car, feels as though the little bit of negative camber that is in the front now, and rear ( I will get an alignment @ work on tuesday and crank in hopefully since its lowered 1.7 negative) the car feels more like the EVO in its ability to turn in and not push,..same thing when trying to push harder at the limit,..it SEEMS,.to digest the corner more, and not push,.....so sum this up, you dont have to lift throttle steer the car more now, you can just feed this thing a corner and its like a horny,hungry pitbull. !!

C) As I entered the 7-eleven, three guys as I pass by said,.." hey look at the lowered STI,.." and I though,..great this thing looks lowered,..just NOT what I wanted. So I asked that guy,..does it really look lowered,..?" dude replied,..no,..it just doesnt look like its raised up like the stock car,.." hhhmmnnnnnnnn I thought,....
UNTIL I got home,...my neighbor runs out,..@ 12:15 am,.."dude you lowered it,..?....tow-tah-lee-freakin-swell,.....dude !!



I like it very much,.it doesnt feel like a lowered WRX,.it feels more refined than that,...very much unlike anything I have ever felt.

I will post pictures tonight !!

944 turbo guy.

PS BIG thanks to Tai Chih,.for his Formula -1 type anal-ness and precision install,..I thought I was at FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES.....
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Old 08-09-2003, 11:20 AM   #2
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Sounds great and a lot of fun. Looking forward to pics. Price? So you are currently running stock alignment?
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Old 08-09-2003, 11:34 AM   #3
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I think you've done more mods than anyone so far! Can you list them all in one nice thread here with a very brief impression of each?

I'm contemplating a new air-intake but I've been reading many negative experiences, like bogging, not enough filtering with high air flow intakes, etc.. What do you think?
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Old 08-09-2003, 12:06 PM   #4
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Thumbs up

Sounds great. MUST SEE PICS!
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Old 08-09-2003, 12:33 PM   #5
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sounds like exactly what I need!
so you got them fram Rallispec if I understand correctly?

thnks
p-rex
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Old 08-09-2003, 01:59 PM   #6
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Congrats 944!

Let us know if anything changes after the alignment. Do you change anything else besides the springs? Also, can you tell us how much lower the car sits?

SSS
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Old 08-09-2003, 02:08 PM   #7
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How much and where did you get them.
I need a set.
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:12 PM   #8
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944 turbo guy, you beat me to it! I've been debating on doing these. For those interested, they are STi rev-c (not spec c) lowering springs. They are on Rallispec's web site http://www.rallispec.com/product-susp4.htm
and are model # RST-2119. Note, these will only fit the MY04 rear struts because of the different top hat design which narrows at the top (you can see the springs in the picture).

Dave at Rallispec has said the spring rates are 257/217 f/r.

TRS
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:21 PM   #9
944 turbo guy
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Default Hey Todd,...

The STI paper actualy says STI spec -c on it,.not rev-c. Yes , I was surprised by this also.

944 tg
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:25 PM   #10
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Hmmm, well, as long as they are the ones Rallispec is selling that's what I'm concerned about. The spec c's haven't normally had the pink lowering springs, though.

So, they stiffen up the front pretty well? That's my main reason for doing these. As long as the composure when pushed remains as good as the stockers, I'll be trying them!

TRS
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Old 08-09-2003, 05:15 PM   #11
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You think his springs are the shiz-nit...just give me a couple of weeks...can you say "bye bye bushings, hellow spherical bearings?"
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Old 08-09-2003, 06:17 PM   #12
944 turbo guy
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Default Todd Stratton,.......

OOOOHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOO,..
I'm not saying for a second , that the Spec-c comes with pink springs,...no way,.....all I'm saying is that the writing on the STi
description paper designates these to be for the Spec-c.

Tai-Chih and I both compressed these springs, and if nothing else, this is what I came away from the whole thing,....

1) the stock springs are very stiff to begin with.
2) the pink springs ARE lower.
3) the front pinks are a good amount stiffer.
4) the rear has a more progressive feel to it, maybe same stiffnes
5) I think the only real advantage to these springs is ( in order)
A) lower
B) front stiffer
C) rear more forgiving,and aims more towards tarmac than the
"general" setting of the standard spec-c rear, and or what
we get here in the "US".


Maybe Paul Hansen or B4 can jump in here,.both those guys have driven everything Fuji has ever made that gos fast.


944 turbo guy
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Old 08-09-2003, 06:39 PM   #13
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So is this your car 944 turbo guy? Are these the same springs you have on your car? It doesn't look lowered to me
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Old 08-09-2003, 07:23 PM   #14
944 turbo guy
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Angry Scuba Steve...

This IS a bad picture,..as my new pix will show, it certainly is lower,.enough that it's noticable. I will have the other pix up tonight. Then tell me what you think,..

944tg
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Old 08-09-2003, 07:27 PM   #15
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Default Scuba Steve has made a good observation,..

This picture was taken before the car settled, as in before we rolled the car back and forth to get the suspension to settle out.
Before 12 eastern time, I'll have pix up.

944tg
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Old 08-09-2003, 07:35 PM   #16
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Todd-

You mention that the spring rate is 257/217 f/r for these springs, can you tell me how that compares with the stock spring rates?

I have just taken delivery of my STI about 30 hours ago, comming out of a Boxster in which I spent lots of time on track, I cant wait to get this car on the track in later spetmeber. So far I am VERY impressed by the car, it is a really impressive machine, but you knew that.

Also can you tell me the difference between rev-c and spec-c? I am somewhat new to the Subaru sport side of things, and an trying to get ramped up as quickly as I can.

Last thing, 944TurboGuy, you mention the twitch on off throttle is mitigated with these springs. I have to say it is quite spooky just HOW much the front end moves around in a corner on and off the throttle. It is actually similar to my old 911SC, except it is at the front instead of the rear. How do you get used to this? Obviously stead throttle is what we are looking for here, but are there other secrets I should know about? BTW this is with the diff totally open.

Thanks!!

Michael
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Old 08-09-2003, 08:12 PM   #17
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Could you post the part numbers etc please.
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Old 08-09-2003, 09:39 PM   #18
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Thanks for sharing the information. I'm considering some changes to my car, and am worried that getting these springs would adversely affect my wheel choices. I've got someone (Fordahl in Bellevue) looking into whether 17x8.5 wheels+tires will fit, otherwise I'll go with 17x8. Even if 17x8.5's fit with the stock suspension, I'm dubious about fitment once lowered.

My other plan is to do wheels then see what he comes up with for a full suspension enhancement (coilovers). Expensive, but Fordahl does know cars.
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Old 08-09-2003, 10:43 PM   #19
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Hello There! now that im looking at that STi, where can i find the IMSA sticker that he has on his spoiler?? ive been looking for them for a while? any suggestions??
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Old 08-10-2003, 12:11 AM   #20
944 turbo guy
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Default Impreza addict....

That little IMSA sticker came in the packet with my IMSA race license ! So its a very expensive sticker ! Panoz school was giving those out if you raced in the GT series, but I have seen them at Imsa races in the past,.I'm sure they'll have em' at the Miami Grand Prix in Sept.

Karter,..there seems to be two things that are going on is this car (STI). One thing is, when you first get the car and you try to drive it fast,.the front diff takes alot to get used to. I used to have a 88' jetta with a 2.0 supercharged engine with 220 hp @ wheels(2350 lbs) and it had a Quaife limited slip,.so the second you get on the gas, the world was pulling you through the corner. The STI feels the same way ( in auto mode),.so thats why you feel this major urge to have that thing aimed in the right direction before you stomp on it. You,..MAY want to try shifting that DCCD all the way to the rear, and just watch the front Suretrac wont be so over powering, PLUS,.it'll most likely fit your driving style, since youre coming from a mid engine car. .......The second thing, which is what you asked about,..because Subaru dialed more toe in the rear, and tried to get the front to turn by making the rear stiffer,.one side effect is,.when you're not on the gas, the rear twitches,.if you get back on the gas, it tucks back in,....since I lowered the car, that feeling is gone, and its way more predictable.


I think that part of the "drawback " of the stock ride height in the STi is simple,..name another production car, that people, journalist and enthusiast want to drive and push to the limit, that isas stiff as the STI,..YET,.....sits as high as it does??????
The EVO,..in all it's glory,..doesnt have the high ride height,.top heavy feeling,.........if you watchsome of the videos of the Japaneese drivers doing 8min 5 second laps at the Nurberdring (I can never spell that right),.even those guys are fighting and working the steering and lifting off the gas to get that car to go where they want it too,........yet,...and it's my "no-body" regular guy opinion that lowering this car,..makes a world of a difference, and in theory, there's nothing that says thatit would either. I do have more negative camber up front now also,.and this is something we have all felt from the very first EVO-sTI test we read, knew would help the turn in and overall handling of the car.
I cant wait until Tuesday, to do an alignment,.looking for 1.7 nagative.

I just sent new pix to my "hoster",.

944 turbo guy.

Ps Fiancee drove it tonight,..first thing shee said was,..." the steering is cerebral now,..",..I told her I installed a Spec-C rack,.and she said,...." get the F--k outta' here,..?you serious,...?"

Just kidding,..just lowered it.

..But it got me thinking,.........................
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Old 08-10-2003, 02:19 AM   #21
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944 turbo guy,

Did you get a chance to measure the height before the lowering job?

If so, what was the height change?

Can you please tell us your car's current height, both the front & rear, as well?

Thanks!
Russ
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Old 08-10-2003, 04:04 AM   #22
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Default Re: Impreza addict....

Quote:
Originally posted by 944 turbo guy
The EVO,..in all it's glory,..doesnt have the high ride height,.top heavy feeling,
Quite correct, actually, which is why it became so uncompetitive in WRC. No, really - short stroke rear suspension design. Works great on the tarmac, poorly on the dirt. Oversteered all the time, when the drivers all wanted at least a dollop of understeer (to overcome with the throttle). The STi has a long-stroke suspension, which is it's strong point along with it's weak point. The long-stroke suspension allows for some absorption of some truly rough stuff. However, if you are on a perfectly flat surface (aka the track) it's unneeded and won't feel as "controlled". The driver at Nurburgring was just using the preferred method to get around that - weight transferus maximus - and given exactly how good of a time he got on the 'ring (it's damned good, in pure supercar territory - I think only the Z06 is close to the price/performance) it certainly can work if sussed out properly. There is a story that the Evo 8 was actually there when the STi 8 was being tested at the 'ring - and went off backwards (short stroke rear suspension...) trying to keep up.

Top heavy feeling in the STi came from Subaru's desire towards safety, for better or worse. It's great in a roll-over. Well, if you can call a roll-over great at any point. Thankfully it's offset by the lower COG of the engine and drivetrain components.

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 08-10-2003, 05:54 AM   #23
944 turbo guy
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Default Dr. Paul to the E.R.......

I love when you use PH's name in a thread and it seems like the thread just pages his beeper or something----

Ok ,.thanks Paul,..I read that 5 times, and if I hear you correctly,..yes the lowered car feels better, and yes drivers like it better, .but am I to understand you that the long stroke ( stock US-STI) spec-c suspension is faster ona longer track, or just more predictable? I will admit, after driving some back roads inthe rain, I questioned( only due to a lack of various driving situations in the last 30 hrs) I questioned how an inexperienced driver would react to some of the new handling traits.

Ok, so here is the question,..and it feels real good to be able to ask someone who has driven these cars, and talked to people who have driven them,.............after reading what you wrote ,Question 1).....could that same driver at the NURBURGRING, if he had the shorter springs that day,...do you think he could have bettered his lap time???????

And there you have it,..the money shot, or should I say,..the money question of the year for me,.....'cause if you remember Paul,.there were 2 things I used to bug you about,....spec-c suspension and spec-c front lip spoiler,........whhhiiiiich kinda brings me to next question Paul.

Question 2) The front lip used on the Spec-c @ the NURBURGRING,given the speeds obtained there(145-155 I assume, cause' dude was well into 6th gear at high RPMs,..)that front lip ,..one would think,.has to offer some front down force,....has to.

Question 3) If you answer No to question 1, is it because its such a long track,..implying, that the Evo,( short stroke suspension) and maybe why it tested marginally better at some tracks here in the states, by some (biased) publications,..why it excels on the shorter tracks?.......

As always Paul Hansen,..thank you for your time and input.

944 turbo guy

Myles.
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Old 08-10-2003, 06:07 AM   #24
944 turbo guy
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Default Nurgburgring Video..

www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/imp_wrx/

for those of you who have never seen this,...I found it in January and knew I wanted white ever since.

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Old 08-10-2003, 07:38 AM   #25
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It's completely possible he could have been faster with the Spec C springs that you are using - or possibly not. Thus was born the back-to-back testing idea.

The 'ring is not a smooth track. It's a pebbly, bump n' grind road that is used by the public. Thus the popularity of testing by the european mags, because it offers an idea of "real-world" performance that you can actually get some numbers out of. A more compliant suspension with enough play to weight shift will likely be of more use than the standard "race" suspension setup.

I don't think he had a lot of downforce, but then, the RA setup isn't that horribly bad. It's just that the "standard" big wing setup is a bit better.

And this all gets back to weight shift, in the end. The STi, and for that matter, the Evo, is not a NSX. It doesn't have a perfect weight balance front to rear. It's rather imperfect, though STi and Ralliart did what they could. So adding in a rock-hard suspension isn't likely to improve your times unless you do something to move the weight in the car around. The reason being that on a rock-hard suspension, you'll have a car with most of it's weight in the front, and no way to wiggle that weight around with the brakes and throttle. It will realllly understeer at that point, and it'll be fairly hard to get around, even in professional's hands. At Tsukuba circuit, when they were doing the time attacks, the tuners noticed that they were losing time with their hard suspended specials on that tight track. They ended up softening the settings to get some rear end action going.

So, IMHO, it's going to be about balancing the feel of the car vs. the minimum necessary compliance out of the suspension. Shimizu-san, the guy in that white car, knows Subaru's very well, to say the least. And he has a rather aggressive view of cornering with them - toss them in sideways, realllly sideways, and just point in the direction he wants to go and hammer on the gas. They are rather quick when it's done correctly.

The problem here is that it does require a fair amount of guts and ability to do so. The (american) Evo may indeed be easier to step into and go fast from the outset - the STi has a more pronounced learning curve, though I've felt that the payoff is worth it.

Last point - feel vs. performance. Always a touchy subject for all of us, because there are settings that feel good, and there are settings that are fast, and they don't necessarily meet. I always preferred a bit of aggressive turn-in on my Subaru's, which was usually accomplished by a rather beefy rear stabilizer bar. I've recently rethought that concept, mainly by accident, because of a stabilizer link that I switched to to the rear that essentially forced me to dial back on the rear bar. I felt that I lost some of that initial front bite - but my car became faster on the track. It became so controllable that I could essentially chuck it in as aggressively as I desired and it wouldn't bite me for it. Consequently, I could push it quite easily to another 3-4mph around the slower corners (and more than that on the high-speed sweepers) without ever feeling like I'm over the edge. It's actually somewhat boring now, possibly further proof that I'm a hoon that likes to punish myself when at the track.

I'm not saying that the switch to the Spec C springs was bad (I actually feel quite the opposite), but it's just a general warning to all that it's easy to go to far, get what feels like a fantastic-feeling go-kart but end up far slower than the stock setup.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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