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Old 08-13-2020, 12:44 PM   #126
JP Chestnut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Did you guys gleam over the fact that the 4.7 second 0-60 was with a red line clutch drop?

Which NONE of you will ever do.

so you are worried about an acceleration run that you will never duplicate ever in your life. A time you will never achieve. Is it more important to know it can do that than to actually do it?

5-60 is a far more important metric for folks who have no intention on chasing 1/4 mile times. The Subarus have never been about drag racing.
It’s slower 5-60 as well. IT IS SLOWER.

Are you trying to make a point, or do you just want to argue?
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Old 08-13-2020, 12:45 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by dcsti View Post
The rolling start numbers have also degraded substantially. The 04-06 were tested at 5.9, the new ones are not close.
This guy gets it.
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:28 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Did you guys gleam over the fact that the 4.7 second 0-60 was with a red line clutch drop?

Which NONE of you will ever do.

so you are worried about an acceleration run that you will never duplicate ever in your life. A time you will never achieve. Is it more important to know it can do that than to actually do it?

5-60 is a far more important metric for folks who have no intention on chasing 1/4 mile times. The Subarus have never been about drag racing.
I've done near-redline clutch drops in my car for autocross. Even the pre-refresh cars can hard to launch without bogging. The STI is also one of the most weather dependent cars I've ever driven due to the TMIC. It feels seriously down on power on a hot day after idling for even a pretty short amount of time.

But in any event, it may very well be the case that the newer cars have some ECU programming that cut power on launches. In the real world, they aren't "substantially slower." In fact a lot of people who test drive them feel they are much quicker. But really, the STI has been pretty consistent in performance from 2004 to present day. A few tenths in the 1/4 mile doesn't change that. While you guys are about a few tenths, the Mustang GT went from low 14s to mid 12s between 2004 and 2020.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:27 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
It’s slower 5-60 as well. IT IS SLOWER.

Are you trying to make a point, or do you just want to argue?
I am saying I dont care. YOu are arguing about it getting slower, which is fine, but I am saying whether the STI is the 45th fastest car 0-60 or the 69th fastest car 0-60 it is irrelevant.

You are not going to get close to any of those numbers anyway. The STI has always been about feel grip and handling, not 0-60 numbers which can only be achieved through serious mechanical abuse.

When the camry's of the world starting having 300 HP, bragging about STI acceleration should have stopped.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:44 PM   #130
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Look at you, just wanting to argue. Your points are invalid!
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Old 08-13-2020, 03:15 PM   #131
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I'd argue the STI has been about reliability. Residual value reflects how awesome the reliability really is.
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:46 PM   #132
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Default Speculation about why the next gen STI was delayed till 2022 at the earliest.

So after doing a bit of research I wonder if the slower times of the MY18+ cars come down to the wheel/tire combos?

A 2015 STI Limited with the BBS wheels has a combined wheel and tire weight of 47.1 lbs.

A 2015 STI base has a combined wheel and tire weight of 49.25 lbs.

A 2018+ STI has a combined wheel and tire weight of 54.4 lbs.

So the total rotational weight difference of the wheel/tire combo between a 2015 STI Limited and a 2018 STI Limited is 29.2.

Comparing base to base the difference is 20.6 lbs.

So either way you slice it you’re looking at either a 20 or 30 lb. difference in the rotational weight of the wheel/tire combos. This will definitely affect acceleration and is most likely the cause.

Last edited by Lminette; 08-13-2020 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:14 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
So after doing a bit of research I wonder if the slower times of the MY18+ cars come down to the wheel/tire combos?

A 2015 STI Limited with the BBS wheels has a combined wheel and tire weight of 47.1 lbs.

A 2015 STI base has a combined wheel and tire weight of 49.25 lbs.

A 2018+ STI has a combined wheel and tire weight of 54.4 lbs.

So the total rotational weight difference of the wheel/tire combo between a 2015 STI Limited and a 2018 STI Limited is 29.2.

Comparing base to base the difference is 20.6 lbs.

So either way you slice it you’re looking at either a 20 or 30 lb. difference in the rotational weight of the wheel/tire combos. This will definitely affect acceleration and is most likely the cause.
An extra 5lbs of wheel/tire weight is probably only good for a tenth or two off though, not quite what they are publishing. I will say that when I switch to my autocross wheels/tires from stock (about 5lbs a wheel lighter), the difference is noticeable on the butt dyno.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:19 PM   #134
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The DCCD AWD system was also updated to some degree as well. At the end of the day the cars are not appreciably slower and as others have explained, you're not/shouldn't be red lining and clutch dumping your car each time you launch.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:29 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
So after doing a bit of research I wonder if the slower times of the MY18+ cars come down to the wheel/tire combos?

A 2015 STI Limited with the BBS wheels has a combined wheel and tire weight of 47.1 lbs.

A 2015 STI base has a combined wheel and tire weight of 49.25 lbs.

A 2018+ STI has a combined wheel and tire weight of 54.4 lbs.

So the total rotational weight difference of the wheel/tire combo between a 2015 STI Limited and a 2018 STI Limited is 29.2.

Comparing base to base the difference is 20.6 lbs.

So either way you slice it you're looking at either a 20 or 30 lb. difference in the rotational weight of the wheel/tire combos. This will definitely affect acceleration and is most likely the cause.
You can throw the difference in brake rotor weight in there as well.
Front rotor size went from 325mm to 340mm for 2018.
Rear size went from 318mm to 328mm; the rear rotor has now a larger diameter than the front 2004~2017 rotors.
But, I seem to remember that these weight differences (wheel+tire+brake) were already brought up in past discussions and the consensus seemed to be that all that extra weight do not completely explain why the 2018 is slower to 60.
No doubt, the extra weight doesn't help though; but, IMO, the 2018 STI brake upgrade is most welcome.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:35 PM   #136
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Good call on the brakes! Spaced on that! This is however rotational weight not just weight. It's the worst kind of weight in terms of robbing you of power so my money is still on this being the primary reason.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:46 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
So after doing a bit of research I wonder if the slower times of the MY18+ cars come down to the wheel/tire combos?

A 2015 STI Limited with the BBS wheels has a combined wheel and tire weight of 47.1 lbs.

A 2015 STI base has a combined wheel and tire weight of 49.25 lbs.

A 2018+ STI has a combined wheel and tire weight of 54.4 lbs.

So the total rotational weight difference of the wheel/tire combo between a 2015 STI Limited and a 2018 STI Limited is 29.2.

Comparing base to base the difference is 20.6 lbs.

So either way you slice it you’re looking at either a 20 or 30 lb. difference in the rotational weight of the wheel/tire combos. This will definitely affect acceleration and is most likely the cause.
no, its not the cause and the wheel/tire weight doesnt affect it much at all.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:48 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
You can throw the difference in brake rotor weight in there as well.
Front rotor size went from 325mm to 340mm for 2018.
Rear size went from 318mm to 328mm; the rear rotor has now a larger diameter than the front 2004~2017 rotors.
But, I seem to remember that these weight differences (wheel+tire+brake) were already brought up in past discussions and the consensus seemed to be that all that extra weight do not completely explain why the 2018 is slower to 60.
No doubt, the extra weight doesn't help though; but, IMO, the 2018 STI brake upgrade is most welcome.
on my 2018 golf r i measured 0-60 with the stock boat anchor wheels/tires and rotors, and then with 2 piece lightweight rotors and much lighter wheels/tires. 0-60 changed less than .2 seconds.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:54 PM   #139
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Last edited by Lminette; 08-13-2020 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 08:27 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
So after doing a bit of research I wonder if the slower times of the MY18+ cars come down to the wheel/tire combos?

A 2015 STI Limited with the BBS wheels has a combined wheel and tire weight of 47.1 lbs.

A 2015 STI base has a combined wheel and tire weight of 49.25 lbs.

A 2018+ STI has a combined wheel and tire weight of 54.4 lbs.

So the total rotational weight difference of the wheel/tire combo between a 2015 STI Limited and a 2018 STI Limited is 29.2.

Comparing base to base the difference is 20.6 lbs.

So either way you slice it you’re looking at either a 20 or 30 lb. difference in the rotational weight of the wheel/tire combos. This will definitely affect acceleration and is most likely the cause.
No, that doesn't explain it. Grassroots Motorsports did a series of performance tests on an older underpowered Miata where they started with ultra light race only rims and swapped them out with successively heavier wheels. They made a slight difference, but nothing like the updated STI.

I also roughly calculated the inertia of the 19" and 18" wheels and it wasn't that big of a percentage change. You can search for my post on here if you're interested - assuming derphawk didn't get the thread caved.
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Old 08-14-2020, 12:58 AM   #141
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I read an article today that said the release order of the next gen STI and WRX was leaked and the STI is going to be released first in 2022, and then the WRX later at the end of 2022. Releasing the STI first makes sense since it is the flagship performance car from subaru and it will get people into the dealerships.
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:35 AM   #142
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You have that backwards, WRX in late 21 and STI in 22
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Old 08-14-2020, 10:40 AM   #143
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Regarding Acceleration Differences and using CarAndDriver as the benchmark.

2015 STI Limited - 3390 LBS
0-60 - 4.6
5-60 - 6.3
0-100 - 12.0
0-130 - 26.1

2018 STI w/Recaro Pckg - 3451 LBS
0-60 - 5.3
5-60 - 7.0
0 - 100 - 13.0
0 - 130 - 25.7

To separate the impact of the launch from
(c-diff change) from tuning (pulling timing in 3rd or 4th gear) I wanted to look at the acceleration differences between 0 to 60 and 0 to 130.

2015 - 25.7 - 4.6 = 21.1
2018 - 26.1 - 5.3 = 20.8

So essentially the same (within 2%)

Now this is not an controlled test, and these are the adjusted numbers, not the raw numbers.

For what it's worth I don't think the regular 2018 STIs are any slower than the 2015s; other than the launch.

The RA model does appear to be moderately slower, which may be attributed to the tuning change (maybe for engine preservation). The differential of its 0 to 60 time and it's 0 to 130 time is 23 seconds, or about 11% slower than the base 2018 STI. These differences slightly are less significant when looking at the 60 to 100 times (~8-9%).

There's not enough tests of 2019's or 2020's to confirm they've improved the tuning.

FWIW, I cant tell the difference from the 2015 and 2017 models I've driven as compared to my 2019. With respect to my 2019, I do notice more variability in performance dependent on weather conditions than other (non-subaru) cars I've owned in the past.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:28 PM   #144
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You have that backwards, WRX in late 21 and STI in 22
no I dont. This was new info that was just leaked. The STI is first in 2022 for SALE and then the wrx for SALE later in 2022. When they actually go on SALE is the key here...not necessarily when they are "released".
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:30 PM   #145
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Sorry, the leaked image shows WRX first. WRX has more sales. Doesn't make sense to push out the new STI first.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:41 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
no I dont. This was new info that was just leaked. The STI is first in 2022 for SALE and then the wrx for SALE later in 2022. When they actually go on SALE is the key here...not necessarily when they are "released".
Totally makes sense, because EJ25.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:06 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Totally makes sense, because EJ25.
Can you imagine?

Subaru: We are very proud to introduce the BRAND NEW 2022 Subaru WRX STi. We have heard your voices loud and clear, which is why we have brought back the STi in your choice of either sedan or hatchback.

Also Subaru: Also, it has an EJ25. Have fun!
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:20 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by YungBoba View Post
Can you imagine?

Subaru: We are very proud to introduce the BRAND NEW 2022 Subaru WRX STi. We have heard your voices loud and clear, which is why we have brought back the STi in your choice of either sedan or hatchback.

Also Subaru: Also, it has an EJ25. Have fun!
Fortunately, it's pretty much confirmed that won't happen because the EJ already had to be pulled from the Euro market over emissions. I can't believe other markets would be far behind. They also want as many models as possible with as few engines as possible, so it makes no sense to carry forward an obsolete design which necessitates continuing to make EJ blocks separate from their FA designs. Some flavor of FA24 is pretty much guaranteed. The real question is whether the regular WRX gets a revised FA20 or an FA24.
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Old 08-15-2020, 03:42 PM   #149
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Fortunately, it's pretty much confirmed that won't happen because the EJ already had to be pulled from the Euro market over emissions. I can't believe other markets would be far behind. They also want as many models as possible with as few engines as possible, so it makes no sense to carry forward an obsolete design which necessitates continuing to make EJ blocks separate from their FA designs. Some flavor of FA24 is pretty much guaranteed. The real question is whether the regular WRX gets a revised FA20 or an FA24.
It's possible, in THEORY I mean geeeez, the STI has EXCLUSIVELY had the 2.5 300+ horsepower EJ in the U.S , and the U.S is now the primary market for the STI, actually since 2015. There is no reason they COULD'NT continue to use the STI version of the EJ in the STI in the U.S because the car would still sell like hotcakes with all the other improvements they would be doing in the redesign. Especially if they made a dual clutch 6 speed, and or electric motor supplementation, that would eliminate gas mileage concerns and make instant torque.

And sure they could do that with a new 2.4 as well, but why bother when the FA is going to knocking on the door 10 years of use in the WRX platform in 2022 , its not going to be a "new" engine if its put in the STI at that point....and electric drive is going to knock the FA's out pretty quick within a few years of being in the new STI...its just going to be aging fast...and relatively faster than even the EJ did as during all of the EJ years, electric drive was nowhere NEAR as prolific as it is now. So why not just keep the EJ for 2-3 more years? They have Ironically never even scratched the surface of its capabilites when modded and could if they wanted to.

This is a very interesting time for subaru, hopefully everyone can appreciate it.
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Old 08-15-2020, 06:36 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fathatch View Post
Regarding Acceleration Differences and using CarAndDriver as the benchmark.

2015 STI Limited - 3390 LBS
0-60 - 4.6
5-60 - 6.3
0-100 - 12.0
0-130 - 26.1

2018 STI w/Recaro Pckg - 3451 LBS
0-60 - 5.3
5-60 - 7.0
0 - 100 - 13.0
0 - 130 - 25.7

To separate the impact of the launch from
(c-diff change) from tuning (pulling timing in 3rd or 4th gear) I wanted to look at the acceleration differences between 0 to 60 and 0 to 130.

2015 - 25.7 - 4.6 = 21.1
2018 - 26.1 - 5.3 = 20.8

So essentially the same (within 2%)

Now this is not an controlled test, and these are the adjusted numbers, not the raw numbers.

For what it's worth I don't think the regular 2018 STIs are any slower than the 2015s; other than the launch.

The RA model does appear to be moderately slower, which may be attributed to the tuning change (maybe for engine preservation). The differential of its 0 to 60 time and it's 0 to 130 time is 23 seconds, or about 11% slower than the base 2018 STI. These differences slightly are less significant when looking at the 60 to 100 times (~8-9%).

There's not enough tests of 2019's or 2020's to confirm they've improved the tuning.

FWIW, I cant tell the difference from the 2015 and 2017 models I've driven as compared to my 2019. With respect to my 2019, I do notice more variability in performance dependent on weather conditions than other (non-subaru) cars I've owned in the past.
It's 0.7 seconds slower 5-60. That already controls for the launch. It's not some magical mystery. It's just slower.
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