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Old 02-18-2020, 06:54 PM   #26
oichan
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Not having rear seats is not a problem for me as I own multiple cars, but AT is a problem.. especially the 4 banger makes no sense to me since there is a more powerful V6 version why bother buying the 4 cylinder.

That said, the 86 with 6MT would be a better choice even if it came with a wimpy motor again.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:50 PM   #27
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According to Autoevolution, I may have been close with my power estimates of a naturally aspirated FA24 for the twins. No idea on the credibility of this rumor..

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...21-141165.html

"Word has it the 2.0-liter FA20 will be replaced by a 2.4 similar in design to the FA24 but without the forced induction of the twin-scroll turbocharger. The free-breathing version of the FA24 is expected with 217 horsepower and 177 pound-feet, specifications that seem likely when compared to the output of the FA20."

The extra torque would be welcomed.. but will the torque dip finally be eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I think we'll see the Twins with a naturally aspirated, high-ish revving FA24D (w/D-4S) with a 15-20% power bump (~225-245 hp & 170-190 lb-ft) thanks to the ~20% increase in displacement.. and of course the option for a manual transmission. I'm guessing the redline will be between 7,000-7,500 rpm considering the FA24 & FA20 share the same 86mm stroke. The added weight and friction from the larger diameter pistons may cause them to drop the redline down a bit from the current 7,400 rpm.

I really hope they adopt Mazda's philosophy for the Miata of "Adding Lightness" to keep the curb weight around 2,800 lbs or lower.

A naturally aspirated (Subaru) engine, manual transmission, and backseat will differentiate it from the BMW Supra (Edit: Especially with the recent announcement of the 3,1xx lb, 255hp/295lb-ft turbo 4 Supra). Being a lightweight, naturally aspirated, RWD coupe will also keep it out of the WRX/STI territory.
I suspect the turbocharged, 255 hp 86 rumors were confused with the 4 cylinder Supra.. or maybe just wishful thinking? or clickbait to draw traffic to their websites.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 02-19-2020 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:04 PM   #28
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what if the 2.0 supra and the gr86 differentiate where the 2.0 supra gets the 255hp but with only the 8 speed automatic, and the gr86 gets the 2.4 turbo but only making 250hp and with the 6speed manual or automatic. neither would really step on each other's toes and the wrx and sti still would have the awd, more power, and more room than the new brz
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:39 PM   #29
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Very little chance this vehicle gets the FA24 engine IMO.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:43 PM   #30
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Since everyone is complaining about the auto only Supra, I'm not sure how offering a similar HP version of the 86 with a manual wouldn't be an issue for Toyota. The fact that the 86 is even more practical (with its back seat) is an even bigger disincentive.

If they fit a detuned STI 2.4 into the twins, how long would it be until people had those tuned up to ~315hp using all OEM Subaru parts? Pretty quick I think.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Since everyone is complaining about the auto only Supra, I'm not sure how offering a similar HP version of the 86 with a manual wouldn't be an issue for Toyota. The fact that the 86 is even more practical (with its back seat) is an even bigger disincentive.

If they fit a detuned STI 2.4 into the twins, how long would it be until people had those tuned up to ~315hp using all OEM Subaru parts? Pretty quick I think.
first we wait for confirmation of it getting the FA24 turbo. once that is confirmed, the tuning fun can begin. if the NA 2.4 is there then we will see its power output and decide from there
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:16 PM   #32
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Holding out for a CVT.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
According to Autoevolution, I may have been close with my power estimates of a naturally aspirated FA24 for the twins. No idea on the credibility of this rumor..

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...21-141165.html

"Word has it the 2.0-liter FA20 will be replaced by a 2.4 similar in design to the FA24 but without the forced induction of the twin-scroll turbocharger. The free-breathing version of the FA24 is expected with 217 horsepower and 177 pound-feet, specifications that seem likely when compared to the output of the FA20."

The extra torque would be welcomed.. but will the torque dip finally be eliminated?


I suspect the turbocharged, 255 hp 86 rumors were confused with the 4 cylinder Supra.. or maybe just wishful thinking? or clickbait to draw traffic to their websites.
This right here makes perfect sense. I think you are spot on yet again.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:35 PM   #34
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Here is the thing...They can make a very, very, very potent 86 without FI. Porsche did it with the GT3, obviously I am not comparing the two BUT there is a ton of potential in a NA FA24...Ahhhh dafuq am I saying, we will barely get over 200 hp with terrible OEM tuning.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Holding out for a CVT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Here is the thing...They can make a very, very, very potent 86 without FI. Porsche did it with the GT3, obviously I am not comparing the two BUT there is a ton of potential in a NA FA24...Ahhhh dafuq am I saying, we will barely get over 200 hp with terrible OEM tuning.
This is why I’m heeeere. Solidarity in disillusionment.
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:44 AM   #36
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FA24 CVT BRZ making about 220-230 hp?

Sure. Why not.
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:30 PM   #37
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2.4? Likely.
2.4 with Turbo? Pipedream of mine.

It's all just wishful window shopping, but as a young guy with a wrx I put work into, a factory turbo brz platform would be super attractive and refreshing option.
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:39 PM   #38
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Watch it be electric...
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
FA24 CVT BRZ making about 220-230 hp?

Sure. Why not.
Or, because it's not AWD, howabout a ZF8?

--kC
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:57 PM   #40
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What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
Stupidity is their reason.
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Old 02-24-2020, 03:33 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
Why isn't the Miata more powerful? Even it's turbo isn't that great of an increase.

If they don't give it a turbo, hopefully whatever N/A they put in it will do better than what's in it now. People will ALWAYS ask for more power. The twins where complimented when they were introduced. They have just been out for a long time without any improvements worth discussing. Hopefully the 2nd gen will address much of this. They are not trying to offer a mini Vette with soo much power the majority of buyers won't be able to handle it. Remember, MPG was also a big part of the twins formula. Whether an enthusiast "cares" about it or not, I would think it still matters to a degree and also having to satisfy the CAFE stuff. MPG(emissions), size of engine(CoG), cost. Many things/reasons not to offer a turbo.
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Old 02-24-2020, 03:35 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
Yes, the tech is there as well as the infrastructure to do so, but there is a lot more to it and I am no expert.

For one, this would compete too much with the WRX sales in my opinion, and they have positioned the brz/86 in its own offering category, affordable, lightweight, NA engine that drives great, and doesnt make too much power, tons of fun to drive, but leaves wanting for more power.

WRX gives you the turbo, manual, and awd we desire at another reasonable price point (slightly more expensive), but is a 4 door sedan, and heavier.

If you were to tell me I could get an affordable (wrx price or cheaper) RWD 2.4L turbo manual lightweight track coupe that can be tuned up easily, or a WRX like I bought, guess which way I'm going?
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
From working within product planning at a vehicle OEM I feel like the amount of validation work required to make sure the car won't grenade itself, plus the cost of emissions and crash test certification don't justify the returns in additional sales.

These sort of decisions aren't taken lightly by manufacturers, if it penciled out you better believe you could get any one of the FA20/EJ257/EZ36 in the BRZ.
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Why isn't the Miata more powerful? Even it's turbo isn't that great of an increase.

If they don't give it a turbo, hopefully whatever N/A they put in it will do better than what's in it now. People will ALWAYS ask for more power. The twins where complimented when they were introduced. They have just been out for a long time without any improvements worth discussing. Hopefully the 2nd gen will address much of this. They are not trying to offer a mini Vette with soo much power the majority of buyers won't be able to handle it. Remember, MPG was also a big part of the twins formula. Whether an enthusiast "cares" about it or not, I would think it still matters to a degree and also having to satisfy the CAFE stuff. MPG(emissions), size of engine(CoG), cost. Many things/reasons not to offer a turbo.
There is power and then there is power. The mazdaspeed Miata sold very well. The fast that nearly every car on the street can out drag the twins is the issue and why I didn’t look at them.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:07 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
From working within product planning at a vehicle OEM I feel like the amount of validation work required to make sure the car won't grenade itself, plus the cost of emissions and crash test certification don't justify the returns in additional sales.

These sort of decisions aren't taken lightly by manufacturers, if it penciled out you better believe you could get any one of the FA20/EJ257/EZ36 in the BRZ.
Subaru has plenty of experience with FI. I doubt it is a big stretch for them to figure it out.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Stupidity is their reason.
Yes, more on the Toyoda side.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
There is power and then there is power. The mazdaspeed Miata sold very well. The fast that nearly every car on the street can out drag the twins is the issue and why I didn’t look at them.
And the Miata is that much faster? Really? And if the Mazdaspeed sold so good, why don't they offer it now? Why isn't a turbo motor a standard motor for them?
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:31 PM   #49
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NC Miata Mazdaspeed was more of a Ford push.

ND Miata RF is pretty expensive. Adding a turbo would make it mid-to-upper $30k. Same with a BRZ STI.
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Old 02-25-2020, 01:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
NC Miata Mazdaspeed was more of a Ford push.

ND Miata RF is pretty expensive. Adding a turbo would make it mid-to-upper $30k. Same with a BRZ STI.
Mazda never offered a Mazdaspeed NC. However the NC was almost as fast as the NB Mazdaspeed and ND and especially the ND2 are much faster.
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