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12-13-2019, 05:37 AM | #1 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15822
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: TOPOHTO
Vehicle:1999 WRB GM6 2.34 LR destroker |
PS pump relocation
Anybody brave (or mad) enough to swap PS pump and alternator around? I have seen this done once on a rally car, but can no longer find pictures
they also did this on several WRC cars, but that's too hardcore since they dropped PS pump down to where the header is I want to do this, because all my PS lines and tank are relocated to the other side, so it would make things more tidy
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12-27-2019, 07:15 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 48377
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: "They eat fish soaked in lye"
Vehicle:1996 Gutted, built XP class Impreza L |
I have not done it, but was looking into an electric PS pump to take the pump off the front of the engine. It shouldn't be that hard to do.
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12-29-2019, 03:45 AM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15822
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: TOPOHTO
Vehicle:1999 WRB GM6 2.34 LR destroker |
I considered retrofitting Mini PS electric pump, but have my doubts on this route
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01-01-2020, 01:54 AM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 48377
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: "They eat fish soaked in lye"
Vehicle:1996 Gutted, built XP class Impreza L |
What doubts? I was looking at relocating it into the passenger footwell area for better weight distribution (autoX specific car- not DD).
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01-02-2020, 07:34 AM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 62941
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: @brgperformance
Vehicle:2004 #LesboRacer #TunedbyBarge |
I used a volvo PS pump. It's not too bad. I put it in the stock battery location through the fenderwell. It's got an integrated reservoir. The wiring is pretty simple to run it in "default" mode.
Flow/Pressure is on the low side especially for a 15+ STI rack but I have no complaints. |
01-02-2020, 04:48 PM | #6 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15822
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: TOPOHTO
Vehicle:1999 WRB GM6 2.34 LR destroker |
I've looked into some electrical PS pumps and they are either very loud, or don't provide enough pressure
this has taken an unexpected turn, and I am researching retrofitting EPAS column from Toyota |
01-07-2020, 01:49 AM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 48377
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: "They eat fish soaked in lye"
Vehicle:1996 Gutted, built XP class Impreza L |
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01-08-2020, 09:26 PM | #8 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!! |
I'd seen numerous electric over hydraulic systems, and most with good results.
However the newer electric assist ones have caught my eye. I'd seen this one, surprisingly cheaper than most others like the EPAS. https://www.superatv.com/universal-p...hoC8J0QAvD_BwE I'd actually seen this video just the other day. He actually had an electric over hydraulic in the Miata at some point before this. Chevy Cobalts (later 00's) also have an electric column that can be found for cheap. Edit: Looked up the years for the Chevy columns I mentioned. Part Compatibility: 2005-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt 2006-2011 Chevrolet HHR - exc SS 2007-2010 Pontiac G5 2005-2006 Pontiac Pursuit 2003-2007 Saturn Ion Toyota Prius are also an electric column, and those are pretty abundant as well. Guess I'll start looking into the pricing of the harness/plugs, control modules and power steering modules between them. Numerous Ebay sellers selling complete Prius kits for ~$250. I'd want to see about how to add the potentiometer to adjust wheel weight. Last edited by Homemade WRX; 01-08-2020 at 09:41 PM. |
01-09-2020, 03:47 AM | #9 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15822
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: TOPOHTO
Vehicle:1999 WRB GM6 2.34 LR destroker |
Yes, there are a lot of DIY kits, but junkyard takeoffs are a fraction of the price and easy to replace
I would stay away from US made EPAS systems (GM stuff), because unlike JDM units, when their controller fails the electric assist is disabled, and on JDM units (Toyota for example) if the controller fails the electric assists stays at full As for potentiometer and JDM units, I have found the following: 1. they take VSS, and adjust effort according to the controller logic, usually the effort increases up to 80km/h, and then stays the same. You have to be careful when selecting the OEM takeoff because all new ones use CAN to transfer data, so figuring that out is going to be a bitch. Old Yaris, Corolla and some other pre MY07 cars use regular ones that will work fine 2. Controller looks at the difference between the torque sensor and steering column rotation sensor, and applies assist accordingly. This one is tricky to modify this article talks about this mod but its not exactly what I was after Ideally I want to map out a signal from my ECU to have the assist I require at a given speed, but I don't see how to do this with the JDM takeoffs yet.... |
01-20-2020, 05:43 PM | #10 |
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SWIC
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Vehicle:2006 Red GDA-F 2005 Aspen White GDA-E |
Thought about deleting PS myself and going electric, but not 100% sure yet.
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01-23-2020, 06:17 PM | #11 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!! |
Hyper told me he's looking to pick up a Prius set up. I think I might be doing the same to dive into the mechanical side of things.
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01-24-2020, 03:09 PM | #12 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 62941
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: @brgperformance
Vehicle:2004 #LesboRacer #TunedbyBarge |
Quote:
My biggest hangup was the rack once you go that way. De-powering a rack really doesn't seem like the "correct" way to have a manual rack. I know a lot of people do it but in talking with some steering people it sounds like the hydraulic fluid performs more functions in the rack than just assisting steering... like supporting bearing for the pinion and other junk that i'm sure i'll just mispeak about. Custom racks that fit in a subaru style steering system are prohibitively expensive for anything worthwhile... and even then most of the manual racks are hard to find in a ratio you'd want to use with an EPAS. I also didn't want to depower my expensive new 15+ STI rack. So electro-hydraulic for me... for now. The Subaru electric steering rack that has been fitted into other subarus just seems massive where you don't want it to be massive. |
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01-24-2020, 03:16 PM | #13 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 62941
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: @brgperformance
Vehicle:2004 #LesboRacer #TunedbyBarge |
On another note I've been doing a decent amount of fooling around with CANbus since i have a Link ECU, 2007 STI ABS, and an ECUMaster Dash in my 04FXT. I've also done a CANbus fuel pump controller and some other random little projects to dabble.
If the prius CANbus system for the steering is somewhat easy to connect to maybe I could scan the canbus and figure out what the addressing is. Then you could tie in a little canbus module to the stock VSS signal and send the appropriate signals to the steering. Depending on what year car you have you may even be able to get some signals off the ABS module to send over to the prius steering rack if it uses it. https://www.therangerstation.com/how...ps-conversion/ There's a fairly detailed article. Looks like the speed signal is a pulse waveform. Looks like you'd just need to emulate over CAN whatever it needs to be "happy". |
01-24-2020, 04:55 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15822
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: TOPOHTO
Vehicle:1999 WRB GM6 2.34 LR destroker |
Quote:
Yes, this is my other concern as well, I have the same info based on my research Our racks were designed to work with hydraulics aiding it moving left and right, and with this mod you are basically putting a lot of stress on the pinion part that will eventually wear it out, pretty quickly So to do it right, it the pinion needs to be modified for full manual use, and I am not in a hurry to mod my "one of the last in existence Q-racks" In my case, I am trying to use older pre-CAN stuff, so most likely its going to be out of E120/121 corolla I can emulate any PWM signal out of Autronic, so that's simple but yes, what you are describing could work, although I am not sure how to pack PWM signal into CAN message Having said that, I still plan to go ahead with this mod (without modifying the rack first) and see how it works, I got a spare steering column which I experiment on |
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01-24-2020, 10:00 PM | #15 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 62941
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: @brgperformance
Vehicle:2004 #LesboRacer #TunedbyBarge |
I look forward to seeing how it goes.
Being able to delete the hydraulics totally would certainly be nice. |
01-26-2020, 11:30 PM | #16 |
Scooby Newbie
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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02-04-2020, 10:07 PM | #17 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:96 3MI Racing search FIRST, then PM!!! |
The problem with internal reservoir is the lack of fluid volume and cooling options.
The idea of going electric is to all clear up space on the engine. I agree that with a powered rack, going to essentially 'manual' is the pinion has a higher load. Whether it will be detrimental or not, I'm not necessarily buying off on that. I get the concern but.... |
02-05-2020, 10:07 PM | #18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 489895
Join Date: Aug 2018
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: North New Jersey
Vehicle:2005 STi PSM |
I saw an older style pump on a drift STI in my area. So i ordered one and gave it a shot.
I ordered a 1998 impreza pump with the res on top from ebay. I welded on an AN -6 adapter and (because of my setup) had to cut it for clearance. I did not relocate it, still stock location and bolts up nicely. I imagine it wouldn't be so hard to fab a bracket to hold the pump, just get it straight and use the alternator to tension it. |
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