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Old 06-27-2020, 05:24 PM   #1
parlusk
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Default UPDATE negative ign timing under load?, extremely low power under 2500k, no codes

I recently picked up an 06 baja non turbo, 5speed, 148k miles bone stock. I have super low power pulling out of hills, until it reaches about 2500 rpm then it takes off. This only happens once the engine is warm. It runs fine when cold. I have changed, plugs, knock sensor, map sensor, re-calibrated tps, cleaned egr, checked fuel pressure, pulled the fuel pump and checked tank, checked vacuum, checked cats with heatgun and also disconnected exhaust, No codes and no pending codes. I have a reader that shows live data and everything looks normal to me, but i am no tuning expert. The headgaskets were done by a dealer 15k ago before i purchased the car. I have also added more grounding straps, I have a new coil on order. I am totally lost I have read post after post and am about out of options. I hate to keep throwing parts at it.

Just a quick update. I ran live data tonight and noticed my ign timing was in the negative when pulling out on steep hills. This seems to be the problem. I am not sure why this doesn't happen when the car is cold, and if my belt was off a tooth would it not run bad all the time?
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Last edited by parlusk; 06-29-2020 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 06-29-2020, 01:58 AM   #2
parlusk
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Just a quick update. I ran live data tonight and noticed my ign timing was in the negative when pulling out on steep hills. This seems to be the problem. I am not sure why this doesn't happen when the car is cold, and if my belt was off a tooth would it not run bad all the time?
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:55 AM   #3
bobjr94
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A bad front O2 sensor can cause power loss and issues like that when hot but not when cold. I might try that if the coil does not help.

After that I would pull the timing cover, make sure they didn't get the belt off 1 tooth when they did the heads. The passenger side head has no cam sensor, so it wouldn't set a code if it was not set right.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:49 AM   #4
parlusk
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Originally Posted by bobjr94 View Post
A bad front O2 sensor can cause power loss and issues like that when hot but not when cold. I might try that if the coil does not help.

After that I would pull the timing cover, make sure they didn't get the belt off 1 tooth when they did the heads. The passenger side head has no cam sensor, so it wouldn't set a code if it was not set right.

Man you nailed this one. New coil didn't help, so i pulled the covers and this is what i found (pics below) I am almost sure its off 1 tooth. I cannot believe it, the dealership got it one tooth off. I am going to go ahead and do a complete water pump and timing belt job. I am still confused as to why it ran great cold but oh well. I cannot figure the image thing out so here is the link to the outback forum where i posted them...

https://www.subaruoutback.org/thread...-codes.522629/
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:59 AM   #5
bobjr94
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I would guess if the cam timing was off it could cause an egr effect if it was late, or an increase in compression if it was early. Probably enough to cause engine knock when the motor is hot, but not when the motors isn't warmed up.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:40 AM   #6
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjr94 View Post
I would guess if the cam timing was off it could cause an egr effect if it was late, or an increase in compression if it was early. Probably enough to cause engine knock when the motor is hot, but not when the motors isn't warmed up.
It's just the difference between open loop (cold) and closed loop (hot). When knock is detected timing is retarded - EGR is too slow to affect the charge temp. Additionally it depends on which side is out of time since SOHC only has a single cam position sensor on the left bank. If the right bank is out of time the ECM doesn't know it.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:10 AM   #7
parlusk
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Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
It's just the difference between open loop (cold) and closed loop (hot). When knock is detected timing is retarded - EGR is too slow to affect the charge temp. Additionally it depends on which side is out of time since SOHC only has a single cam position sensor on the left bank. If the right bank is out of time the ECM doesn't know it.

To me the right cam is the one i think is off.I just shot a video showing this and will update it as soon as it uploads.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:11 AM   #8
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:49 PM   #9
parlusk
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Well. After a bit of research and so comments I found that my timing belt was on correctly. The left cam (facing front) Shows being half a tooth off, this is normal. So I put everything back together and to no surprise the car is running the same. I have ordered a 16pin to usb so that i can romraider and get logs to better see what is going on. I will keep everyone updated. Thanks again for all the help!
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:22 PM   #10
Elbert Bass
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It's possible your knock sensor is bad, or been installed wrong or damaged by being overtightened You will need to look at data to see if you are getting a knock signal.
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