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Old 03-01-2021, 09:38 PM   #1
PyroguyFTW
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Default What aftermarket turbo is best for overall power in a DD?

Hey guys, this one is all theory, and mostly to start a discussion. If your response is going to be anything along the lines of "you bought the wrong car" then feel free to save your opinions for other threads.

The base idea here is to have a modern SS/GT/340i/S4/etc killer, that drives comfortably, handles better than all the others, and can be a winter DD.

Assume the car has all the parts installed (fmic, tbe, intake, tgv/egr deletes, brz/IBR manifold, and headers).
The goal is to have something that can pull low 12s at least at 110 on 93, and then break low 11s at 115-120 on flex. I'm using quarter times because they give a far better representation of total acceleration than 0-60, etc.

The other goal is low end torque. Highway cruising, ease of passing, and spirited driving all benefit from it. As we all know, the stock engine is not very fond of it, but most other manufacturers have figured out how to safely manage it, and with proper rod, piston, and ring selection it shouldn't be all that hard to manage. I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect at least 300ft/lbs at 2500rpm and have the turbo able to hold power to 6500.

My initial thought is that a STX 67R+ would be the best compromise. Since the power goal is fairly low, it seems attainable. Anyone have any better suggestions?
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:36 PM   #2
WrightWRX
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Best DD would be the SoCal V3 or FP Blue in my opinion. But if you choose steamspeed why not go with the stx71r?
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Old 03-02-2021, 05:54 AM   #3
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Love my FP blue.

Yes the spool is SLIGHTLY slower... but fanbois can't put 2 and 2 together and realize the stock block/rods hate that low end torque when modifications and tuning come into play. That spool time actually turns into a benefit.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:03 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by BostonShaun View Post
Love my FP blue.

Yes the spool is SLIGHTLY slower... but fanbois can't put 2 and 2 together and realize the stock block/rods hate that low end torque when modifications and tuning come into play. That spool time actually turns into a benefit.
Pretend it's VTEC

On the topic of which turbo for a DD, I'd just go the most efficient route unless you're going to be adding supplemental fuel or meth. According to Ron Watson, the stock turbo is capable of maxing out the fuel system on the WRX, so now we're talking even bigger bucks to support a DD turbo.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:26 AM   #5
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Socal v3 just because it wont be working at 100% (like stock turbo) to attain your goals and fraction of cost of fp blue which would be too much turbo for fueling.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:44 AM   #6
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If you have the mula... get the FP blue ballbearing. If not, the socal v3 is solid. Im running socal v3 on my build.

I make 410 whp 400 wtq on e60. It's fun. I eat stock 5.0, scat packs, and damn near anything on a low roll or dig. there are v3 turbo builds out there making closer to 500ish whp but i believe they are on an sti trans.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:23 AM   #7
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Stock turbo
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by WrightWRX View Post
Best DD would be the SoCal V3 or FP Blue in my opinion. But if you choose steamspeed why not go with the stx71r?
I like the 71R power, but I'm looking for low bottom end power, which means the smallest compressor for 500-600 crank hp, and a ball bearing turbo, which I think eliminates the FP Blue and the V3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonShaun View Post
Love my FP blue.

Yes the spool is SLIGHTLY slower... but fanbois can't put 2 and 2 together and realize the stock block/rods hate that low end torque when modifications and tuning come into play. That spool time actually turns into a benefit.
Yes, that slower spool can be good for a stock block, but I'm looking for quick spool and a few pounds in the lower rpm range. BMW and Ford have managed to get some impressive low end and decent high end out of their smaller engines, like the 2.0 Ecoboost and the B48. I see no reason not to chase that when going for a built block and aftermarket turbo.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobultimatum View Post
If you have the mula... get the FP blue ballbearing. If not, the socal v3 is solid. Im running socal v3 on my build.

I make 410 whp 400 wtq on e60. It's fun. I eat stock 5.0, scat packs, and damn near anything on a low roll or dig. there are v3 turbo builds out there making closer to 500ish whp but i believe they are on an sti trans.
I didn't realise they had a ball bearing option. That's definitely a decent setup then, but doesn't it utilize a larger exhaust housing than stock?
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:46 AM   #10
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Then tell the tuner to be more aggressive in the low end. From i have been told our stock turbo is capable of 500tq down low, its just that the rods cant take it so professionals limit it to ~350 and not too early or too late in the rpm range on stock rods. Is the bottom end stock in this hypothetical dd?
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
I didn't realise they had a ball bearing option. That's definitely a decent setup then, but doesn't it utilize a larger exhaust housing than stock?
Last I checked it was a direct replacement for stock fitment. I cannot seem to find anymore tho... did they stop producing FP Blue for the fa20dit?
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:31 PM   #12
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Last I checked it was a direct replacement for stock fitment. I cannot seem to find anymore tho... did they stop producing FP Blue for the fa20dit?

It’s a direct bolt on. Based on what the Facebook group said, they’re backed up with in orders right now.
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Old 03-02-2021, 04:54 PM   #13
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I was running gtx3584rs gen 2 on custom headers.. FMIC etc.. on Meth.. I went back to TMIC, and went with FP XR Blue (that's the ball bearing one) fits like a glove (using KB headers).. I was limited by cams and no extra fueling with the 3584rs... so it really made the same #'s and power with FP blue...

Now we have Motec for PI and IBR PI module coming soon... I bought and then sold my Motec M142 ecu (never installed it.. at least I didn't lose $$), as I moved back to an inspection heavy state and can't run Motec and legally get my tags, 'inspection police' be all over that!! I was at 550wtq with multi port WMI.. then it became a DD.. now I have no clue what she makes.. and I don't care.. We ride easy now, WREX paid her dues and is now living large.. gonna give her to my son in a couple years (gotta un-tune for a first car)!

My Van is now getting 2 new stage 5 turbos ;-)!! Raptor 3.5 Ecoboost on WMI and HPtuners (and it can pass inspection).. Funny note I gave a WRX a little scare.. took him off the line in a big @$s Ford Transit Van!! The look on his face, PRICE LESS!!
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:08 PM   #14
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I’ve been running an stx71 gen 2 for the last 30k... with all the bolt ons and no issues. Pushing between 330 and 400 pending bolt ons, fueling and tune.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy18 View Post
Then tell the tuner to be more aggressive in the low end. From i have been told our stock turbo is capable of 500tq down low, its just that the rods cant take it so professionals limit it to ~350 and not too early or too late in the rpm range on stock rods. Is the bottom end stock in this hypothetical dd?
I must have accidentally edited out the built block part of the post, but the theory is a basic built shortblock(ie, pistons and rods, stock compression, ring gap, and clearances, etc.)
Just one crazy idea would be slightly bumped compression, maybe 11.5:1 or even go with a 12.5:1(assuming all 93 and flex, with IBR's shower injection or meth on boost for cooling). I'm not all in on crazy numbers, when big block torque that carries into the 6-6.5k range is enough to make one hell of a sleeper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by killadawg View Post
I was running gtx3584rs gen 2 on custom headers.. FMIC etc.. on Meth.. I went back to TMIC, and went with FP XR Blue (that's the ball bearing one) fits like a glove (using KB headers).. I was limited by cams and no extra fueling with the 3584rs... so it really made the same #'s and power with FP blue...

Now we have Motec for PI and IBR PI module coming soon... I bought and then sold my Motec M142 ecu (never installed it.. at least I didn't lose $$), as I moved back to an inspection heavy state and can't run Motec and legally get my tags, 'inspection police' be all over that!! I was at 550wtq with multi port WMI.. then it became a DD.. now I have no clue what she makes.. and I don't care.. We ride easy now, WREX paid her dues and is now living large.. gonna give her to my son in a couple years (gotta un-tune for a first car)!

My Van is now getting 2 new stage 5 turbos ;-)!! Raptor 3.5 Ecoboost on WMI and HPtuners (and it can pass inspection).. Funny note I gave a WRX a little scare.. took him off the line in a big @$s Ford Transit Van!! The look on his face, PRICE LESS!!
That's awesome! Have any dyno sheets from that, or remember about where your torque started coming in at?

And Ford has really gone all in on their "smallest turbo for the job" approach. It's stupid fun to drive, and all of their engines seem to be built to handle a bunch of boost. I had a buddy who went big turbo Focus ST that sucked before 3k, but made one hell of a road course car. I'm just looking for the best balance of the two worlds.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:37 PM   #16
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Car sounds fabulous, sure seems like it's putting a lot of power to the ground.

What mods do you have? What year is the car?
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
That's awesome! Have any dyno sheets from that, or remember about where your torque started coming in at?
Geez that was like 2 1/2 yrs ago.. I think I was one of the first running ibr brz manifold on a PRL FMIC (had prometh do Multi port WMI on that manifold).. initial #s on a Mustang Dyno I had 498whp with 540tq the curve was decent, not perfect, but I don't remember exactly and who knows were that printout is (with kids and dogs, and being a pack rat messy dude..) I do remember I was a bit disappointed, as I had so much invested ( I was expecting like 900+ hahah at the cost) closed deck custom block, heads, headers, big turbo, every possible bolt on!! Sti Built trans, cusco lsds, cf ds, light flywheel, lpfp, mapdccd, etc.. etc.. I kinda just gave up and stopped caring. I was gonna do PI.. then it just got silly expensive and the wife stepped in when she saw my expenses on just the one car ;-).. oopps!! I Sold the Motec ecu bnib, the IBR manifold, PRL fmic, the garret turbo etc.. and went to tmic with fp blue.. still wmi on stock manifold etc.. I self tuned but just did road tuning, and VD is not accurate imho.. said I had like 600whp.. lol. At one point I had removed all interior panels, sound system, liners etc.. now I've gone opposite... fully sound deadening and creature comforts, 3000 rms watt amps 4 way active sound with a trunck full of heavy subs! went from a RallyX 3 way coilover setup (sad day selling those, lost so much$$) to a 2 way street set to squishy and soft!! I also swapped my solid motor mounts to softer poly.. and in a few years gonna just pass this to my son. My wife doesn't seem to care if I spend money on the Van, as it's our travel car (coverting into a camper) so it's been EB fun lately.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:14 AM   #18
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Stock turbo
"It's the tires"
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Old 03-05-2021, 05:06 PM   #19
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LMAO just watched this. I get similar reactions here in S. FLorida. feelz good brother
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Old 03-05-2021, 06:26 PM   #20
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Not my car guys but typical flex fbo setup. Was trying to show that a stock turbo will smoke most v8 daily.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:27 PM   #21
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“We can do it again... Wanna do it again?”

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Old 03-06-2021, 05:04 PM   #22
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Another one. Fbo ewg flex setup, nothing special, stock turbo stock engine. Same tune as red wrx, 1000s of them out there.

Last edited by Rexy18; 03-06-2021 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 03-06-2021, 06:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by killadawg View Post
Geez that was like 2 1/2 yrs ago.. I think I was one of the first running ibr brz manifold on a PRL FMIC (had prometh do Multi port WMI on that manifold).. initial #s on a Mustang Dyno I had 498whp with 540tq the curve was decent, not perfect, but I don't remember exactly and who knows were that printout is (with kids and dogs, and being a pack rat messy dude..) I do remember I was a bit disappointed, as I had so much invested ( I was expecting like 900+ hahah at the cost) closed deck custom block, heads, headers, big turbo, every possible bolt on!! Sti Built trans, cusco lsds, cf ds, light flywheel, lpfp, mapdccd, etc.. etc.. I kinda just gave up and stopped caring. I was gonna do PI.. then it just got silly expensive and the wife stepped in when she saw my expenses on just the one car ;-).. oopps!! I Sold the Motec ecu bnib, the IBR manifold, PRL fmic, the garret turbo etc.. and went to tmic with fp blue.. still wmi on stock manifold etc.. I self tuned but just did road tuning, and VD is not accurate imho.. said I had like 600whp.. lol. At one point I had removed all interior panels, sound system, liners etc.. now I've gone opposite... fully sound deadening and creature comforts, 3000 rms watt amps 4 way active sound with a trunck full of heavy subs! went from a RallyX 3 way coilover setup (sad day selling those, lost so much$$) to a 2 way street set to squishy and soft!! I also swapped my solid motor mounts to softer poly.. and in a few years gonna just pass this to my son. My wife doesn't seem to care if I spend money on the Van, as it's our travel car (coverting into a camper) so it's been EB fun lately.
That's seriously awesome. I'm bummed PRL discontinued their fmic/brz setup, I actually don't live too far from them but the hot weather days here are killer with a TMIC, and my driving conditions for work and such. The car heat soaks quick and I end up pretty down on power, so a FMIC is in the cards if I can get one on the cheap, and if the 2022 doesn't offer any compelling reasons to upgrade.

Right now, it seems that getting a higher mileage limited and replacing suspension/shortblock would be a great budget comfy supercar killer. I'm kinda piecing this thread together as a build sheet for down the road, assuming the new car doesn't offer reliability over 450whp/500wtq.
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Old 03-06-2021, 06:41 PM   #24
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Not my car guys but typical flex fbo setup. Was trying to show that a stock turbo will smoke most v8 daily.
I've seen this one before, the guy's good but what you never see with these types of videos is the low rpm drivability. No matter the bolt ons you have, it's almost impossible to get a responsive and torquey engine without going forged internals. I know it's almost a pipe dream with a 2.0, but it's doable with the right combo.
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Old 03-06-2021, 07:55 PM   #25
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Low rpm driveability is great, i dunno what you’re talking about. Perhaps you mean low rpm responsiveness and pull/torque, but thats done purposely by the tuner to wait until building up torque. I constantly dance to savage love by tapping lightly the gas pedal at 3000ish rpm when taking kids to school. Wife doesnt like it, makes her nauseated she says.

But you can always down shift and punch it? Personally i live in 3-5500rpm range. Never below 3000rpm. But thats not cuz of the low torque, it’s just my driving style. I am not trying to preserve gas in an fbo tuned car nor am i worried about slowing down wear and tear by driving and shifting under 2000rpm. I am all about riding that powerband and enjoying my machine.

Having said that, what car do you reckon starts roll racing at 2000rpm (low rpm)?
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