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Old 03-08-2021, 07:50 AM   #26
CGumina
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Having said that, what car do you reckon starts roll racing at 2000rpm (low rpm)?
Diesel pickups, mostly.
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Old 03-08-2021, 09:55 AM   #27
noobultimatum
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Low rpm driveability is great, i dunno what you’re talking about. Perhaps you mean low rpm responsiveness and pull/torque, but thats done purposely by the tuner to wait until building up torque. I constantly dance to savage love by tapping lightly the gas pedal at 3000ish rpm when taking kids to school. Wife doesnt like it, makes her nauseated she says.

But you can always down shift and punch it? Personally i live in 3-5500rpm range. Never below 3000rpm. But thats not cuz of the low torque, it’s just my driving style. I am not trying to preserve gas in an fbo tuned car nor am i worried about slowing down wear and tear by driving and shifting under 2000rpm. I am all about riding that powerband and enjoying my machine.

Having said that, what car do you reckon starts roll racing at 2000rpm (low rpm)?
Best part about the build is IF i want MPGz, then i simply go full pump gas.
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Old 03-10-2021, 08:24 AM   #28
PyroguyFTW
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Originally Posted by Rexy18 View Post
Low rpm driveability is great, i dunno what you’re talking about. Perhaps you mean low rpm responsiveness and pull/torque, but thats done purposely by the tuner to wait until building up torque. I constantly dance to savage love by tapping lightly the gas pedal at 3000ish rpm when taking kids to school. Wife doesnt like it, makes her nauseated she says.

But you can always down shift and punch it? Personally i live in 3-5500rpm range. Never below 3000rpm. But thats not cuz of the low torque, it’s just my driving style. I am not trying to preserve gas in an fbo tuned car nor am i worried about slowing down wear and tear by driving and shifting under 2000rpm. I am all about riding that powerband and enjoying my machine.

Having said that, what car do you reckon starts roll racing at 2000rpm (low rpm)?
I'm glad you found a car that matches your driving style perfectly with minimal work, and that you don't have to worry about fuel economy. That's what being a car enthusiast is all about, finding what makes you happy. That said, please understand that I, like many others, have different tastes and requirements from yours. I do a lot of highway driving. I do a lot driving through really tight mountain roads where sometimes you need torque at 15mph. Not to mention, low end torque isn't for roll racing. I want a car that feels good, and torque is a huge part of that equation. If you've ever driven a light car with a small block V8, you'll know exactly what I am talking about.

But as I said in the OP, if you're just going to say that it's a bad idea/stupid/silly/etc, feel free to find another place to share that opinion. I am trying to find constructive answers to a question not many people ask. Most people go built block for a maxed out aftermarket turbo, and I am exploring the idea of something that matches the torque curve of what other manufacturers are putting out in their halo daily cars(Think Focus RS, Golf R, M340i, etc.) Peak torque at like 3k, at least 80% peak torque at 2.25.
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Old 03-10-2021, 08:34 AM   #29
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My oem turbo reaches max torque at 3000rpm. Maybe 3100rpm. It is capable of 500wtq at low 2000rpms per tuner. Rods arent capable of that so they limit it.

Build your block and rods and ask tuner to max torque at 2500rpm. I dont understand what your gripe is about? Generally turbo motors are torquier earlier than na motors, thats what turbo does. Which v8 you speak of is reaching those specs of yours; 80% at 2.25 and 100% at 3000rpm, that is not diesel.

Wrx




Golf R


Supra (upgrades turbos what you want but earlier i guess at 2.25x1000rpm)



In my opinion looking at this data the wrx curve is thickest, earlies and flattest (not comparing supra, only r and wrx).

Last edited by Rexy18; 03-10-2021 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 03-10-2021, 02:48 PM   #30
PyroguyFTW
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Build your block and rods and ask tuner to max torque at 2500rpm. I dont understand what your gripe is about? Generally turbo motors are torquier earlier than na motors, thats what turbo does. Which v8 you speak of is reaching those specs of yours; 80% at 2.25 and 100% at 3000rpm, that is not diesel.
I don't really have any gripes, I am just trying to put together a thread with information instead of opinions, and it doesn't help having people come into the thread and say that the desired effect isn't one that they prefer, and to just shift differently. The MGT2259s is not capable of making a true 450whp car, at least not without a ball bearing CHRA and a billet wheel.

As for V8s, yes most modern ones are at peak torque around 4-5k, but they are within 50 ft/lbs of that off idle. Dyno charts also don't demonstrate how long the spool time is. Even with all tuning limits disregarded, these turbos are not going to spool very quickly on the journal bearings. It can be improved, but never as good as a BB.
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Old 03-11-2021, 07:13 AM   #31
moral hazard
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So the MGT2259s stock CHRA is not ball bearing?
That's a shame.

Last edited by moral hazard; 03-11-2021 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 03-11-2021, 10:25 AM   #32
PyroguyFTW
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So the MGT2259s stock CHRA is not ball bearing?
That's a shame.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...&postcount=828

Sure is. It probably wouldn't have made a difference if they had, the factory internals can't take the torque hit if the tune didn't compensate for it.
If Subaru had used slightly better internals and a ball bearing turbo, I have a feeling we would be seeing a lot more broken transmissions, and a hell of a lot more bolt on cars in the 350-400whp club. I would gladly have paid an extra 1k for that car.
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Old 03-11-2021, 12:56 PM   #33
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I agree, i would have paid too knowing what I now know. But we are exceptions not the rule.

But build your rods and slap on a socal v3 and you can achieve your goal of low end torque. Stock turbo can do 500wtq in low 2000rpm, but stock rods cant. That sure would be a monster to drive. The next issue with your goals is fueling, need meth or port injection to reach 460whp safely and consistently without taking short cuts.

Hopefully fa24 comes dual injected, or just capable of 500/500 on stock di ***55357;***56838;
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Old 03-14-2021, 12:08 AM   #34
PyroguyFTW
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I agree, i would have paid too knowing what I now know. But we are exceptions not the rule.

But build your rods and slap on a socal v3 and you can achieve your goal of low end torque. Stock turbo can do 500wtq in low 2000rpm, but stock rods cant. That sure would be a monster to drive. The next issue with your goals is fueling, need meth or port injection to reach 460whp safely and consistently without taking short cuts.

Hopefully fa24 comes dual injected, or just capable of 500/500 on stock di ***55357;***56838;
That's quite possibly gonna come down the road. At this point, it depends on what happens when the new WRX is debuted.
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