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Tire & Wheel Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack |
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03-04-2021, 11:46 PM | #1 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Do I really need to rotate my tires that often?
I am wondering if I am going about this the right way. For the most part, my tires wear evenly from left to right (or symmetrically), but the fronts wear faster than the rear.
Both the tire shop and the dealer recommend I have my tires (or actually the tire & wheel assembly) rotated every 5k to 6k miles. If the tires wear evenly left to right and the only useful rotation would be front to back, there seems to be no sense in rotating them more than once in the lifetime of the tires. I have asked numerous tire shops and dealers why one needs to rotate their evenly wearing tires every 5k to 6k miles, and I have yet to encounter a single one which can give me a good answer. Here is my reasoning: For example, if you get the tires with 11/32" tread on them and need to replace them at 3/32" tread, you have 8/32" life on them. Let's say at 15,000 miles, you have burned 5/32" off the front and are now at 6/32" and you have burned 3/32" off the rear and are at 8/32". That is the 50% wear point of the tires, and you can rotate them then. After which, the tires now on the front will catch up to the rear and all four tires will need to be replaced at the same time.
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03-06-2021, 09:20 AM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 480491
Join Date: Jan 2018
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You need to rotate them more often. Here are a few bullet points:
1. You have an AWD system and you don't want too big of a difference between tread depths. That can cause more strain on the differentials. 2. If you wait till 3/32nds, half of your tires are just worthless in anything other than dry conditions. You get some rain or anything and they're at risk of not being able to displace the elements. Remember tread depth isn't just about running out of rubber, it's also about providing channels for water to flow. 3. The rotation, like a lot of maintenance, is also a good chance to thoroughly inspect the wheels, tires, some of the visible suspension components, the brake rotors, etc. This should be viewed as an opportunity than anything else. I hope that helps a bit. |
03-06-2021, 11:12 AM | #3 | |||
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Last edited by Golconda; 03-06-2021 at 11:26 AM. |
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03-06-2021, 02:32 PM | #4 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 480491
Join Date: Jan 2018
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I would think the technical details of the differentials is a little bit more complex, because Subaru has a few different designs they use in the lineup and it's certainly different than a 4WD description. Remember that Subaru is one of the more affordable "real AWD" systems available - there's a big price gap between the other cars with such systems that you'll find in Audi and other high end brands. This price gap means Subaru has to work around the budget and so that is why it could be different than other brands. If you read the manual, I believe some Subarus aren't even supposed to have the spare on the front, but rather the rear. I think older Subarus can have the rear wheels disconnected from power delivery by pulling a fuse to accommodate spare tire situations.
As someone who is spending so much time looking into this, you also probably care about the quality of your drive and optimal performance characteristics. Wouldn't you want to get even wear for that reason alone? A tire rotation doesn't cost much in the way of money or time anyway. Depending on where you get your tires, lifetime rotate/balance is included anyway. I know I get that benefit at Costco. This is pretty far down the list of things that are really worth discussing/debating in my opinion. I think some cars say you can change the oil filter every other oil change... but for such a cheap and critical part, why would anyone bother? Quote:
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03-07-2021, 01:03 AM | #5 | |||
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03-07-2021, 11:17 AM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 464019
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NC
Vehicle:2017 Wrx ISM |
Do I really need to rotate my tires that often?
If you are only getting 15,000 miles out of tires then your driving habits should change asap. I drive a lot and hard and I run through tires about once a year. I rotate my tires every oil change and balance them every other oil change. Granted I work in a shop and I follow the same practice/method I recommend, your rear tires just roll essentially. Rotating them allows for more uniform wear.
Edit: I do oil changes around 4500/5000 miles and average about 30,000 miles a year. |
03-07-2021, 12:15 PM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 489993
Join Date: Aug 2018
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: PNW
Vehicle:2019 WRX STI LTD Pure Red |
Short answer is yes, you should do it every 5K as a general rule of thumb for all real AWD (Not so much with 4WD) systems. The interval and the tolerance are as much as for the preservation of the more sophisticated AWD system as it is about prolonging the life of the tires.
As for the Subaru, it depends on which model you have as Subaru also uses different types of AWD systems through out their lineup. Without going into details, because it is a lot and you can look them up and study them on your own, even a few videos on YouTube and here are two to get you started: Basically, the more sophisticate the AWD system is, the more sensitive they are and their tolerance will be lower. Systems such as the ones on the STI (DCCD), Torsen based Audi Quattro and Nissan's ATTESA E-TS. With that being said, since you find something as simple as tire rotation not worth your time, you can do whatever you want with your car. Just take full responsibility of this decision should you do encounter issues in the future. |
03-07-2021, 12:44 PM | #8 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Tire rotation is not quite as simple as it may seem. It is not like Jiffy Lube where you can drive up when you want and get them rotated within an hour. Most tire shops require you to make an appointment and leave the car there for as much as 3x or 4x the actual amount of time it takes to rotate the tires. But a good reason to rotate the tires more often would negate that inconvenience, and I'd do it. |
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03-07-2021, 12:52 PM | #9 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 396346
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03-07-2021, 04:13 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 489993
Join Date: Aug 2018
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: PNW
Vehicle:2019 WRX STI LTD Pure Red |
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Now onto your issue about the actual rotation. Do you work on your own car or do you depend on dealership/shop to do that? If you work on your own car, it is really surprising that you are complaining about tire rotation because it is part of the regular maintenance for anyone that works on their own cars. If you have someone else to it for you, then you have them rotate the tires at the same time while they are working on the car. I don't know your back story but where I am at, it is not impossible to just do a walk-in at a tire shop and be out within an hour most of the time. Now finally, seeing that you joined this forum back in July of 2014, it is even harder to believe that any of this is new to you. Anyway, ultimately, it is up to you. If you don't feel that you have an adequate reason to do it every 5K, then don't. |
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03-07-2021, 05:02 PM | #11 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 464019
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NC
Vehicle:2017 Wrx ISM |
Where are these magical 10 and 12/32 tires? My last 2 sets of tires started off new around 8/32
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03-08-2021, 12:21 AM | #12 | ||||
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The whole idea is to ensure that if you are strictly doing front to rear rotation, then each tire should be on the front of the vehicle 50% of the time during the life of the tires and on the rear of the vehicle 50% of the time during the life of the tires. To achieve this, it does not require a rotation every 5,000 miles - unless your tires only last 10,000 miles. If your tires last 30,000 miles, this can be achieved with a single rotation at 15,000 miles, saving the owner a considerable amount of time and in some cases money. Quote:
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03-08-2021, 12:29 AM | #13 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 512654
Join Date: Mar 2020
Vehicle:2019 wrx red |
if you dont do your own maintenance, dont sweat it, and just pay the man.
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03-08-2021, 01:12 AM | #14 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 489993
Join Date: Aug 2018
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: PNW
Vehicle:2019 WRX STI LTD Pure Red |
Quote:
The OP already stated it before that his time is too valuable to have someone else do it for him. |
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03-08-2021, 02:09 AM | #15 | ||
Scooby Newbie
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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I disagree with the double X rotation, as it would not allow for each tire to be in each location 1/4 of the time. Quote:
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03-08-2021, 10:07 AM | #16 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 512654
Join Date: Mar 2020
Vehicle:2019 wrx red |
you just cant make this stuff up. LOL
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03-08-2021, 10:43 AM | #17 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 489993
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1) Tire rotation is needed to even out tire wear of all four tires and most importantly, to each individual tires as stated above already. If you do this, you SHOULD not find yourself in a situation that will result in a delta in thread depth of greater than 2/32" between any of them. If you do, then there is a bigger issue for you to worry about. 2) The delta of 2/32" has more to do and is more of a guideline when it comes to replacing tires under abnormal circumstances such as unrepairable puncture, blow out, delamination etc. Basically, when less than 4 tires needs to be replaced. This has more to do with saving the vehicle's differentials. The two points are both related in theory, which is where you are stuck in, and unrelated, which is where the reality is in most cases, all at the same time. IF, you are able to keep your tire wear evenly within itself for say, in your case of 15K+ miles, then rotation is not necessary. In this case, all you have to worry about is the 2/32" delta between the tires when it happens. Another scenario this can occur is when you have a car with staggered setup and rotation is not possible. |
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03-08-2021, 04:32 PM | #18 | |
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03-08-2021, 09:11 PM | #19 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 489993
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Since I live and drive in a world that has turns and the have the need to brake and slow down, my tires will never wear evenly across so I will continue to follow the 5K miles tire rotation schedule. Happy motoring and stay safe. Last edited by TifosiWA; 03-08-2021 at 11:43 PM. |
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03-09-2021, 10:56 AM | #20 | ||
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Mar 2019
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Tri-State
Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
Vehicle:'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm '08 Mustang GT (the toy) |
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Maybe you need to find a different tire shop that will accommodate walk-in tire rotation business. Or get a relative or acquaintance to do the rotations in exchange for something of value to them (case of beer, gift card, etc.). Obviously you don't get cold enough winters to need different tires for the colder months. At least I hope that's the case, otherwise you'd have two easy tire rotations every year. Norm |
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03-09-2021, 11:19 AM | #21 |
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MWSOC
Location: Wichita, KS
Vehicle:0304 WRX WRX SY WRB |
I can't say I've ever noticed any tread depth difference F/R on either of my cars with any of the tires I've had. I do get uneven wear due to camber on my autox car, but my daily, the most I see is a bit of rounding of the tread shoulders on the front tires (be it summer or winter sets.) Like Norm said, easy rotations twice a year switching between sets, just put the more square set on front.
I'd have to suspect bad alignment or worn front end parts if the fronts were consistently wearing faster. EDIT: It should be mentioned that the Subaru center differential in most cases is a viscous coupling, and constant rotation of the viscous coupling due to different diameter tires can overheat it and cause it to fail. This is the reason you NEED to rotate more frequently to keep tread depths equal. If you can't afford the time to rotate tires, you really won't like the time it takes to open up the transmission and replace the coupling. Last edited by T-37; 03-09-2021 at 12:03 PM. |
03-19-2021, 12:18 PM | #22 | |
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And I should add that if I rotate my tires just three times in the life of the tires such that each tire is in each location 1/4 of the life of the tires, I will get more life than you will by rotating yours every 5,000 miles - unless the tires last for precisely an amount of miles which is divisible by 20,000. Here is why. Let's say the tires will last 30,000. To get each tire on each location 1/4 of the life, I rotate every 7,500 miles. You rotate every 5,000 miles. After 20k, each of your tires will have been in each location 1/4 of the time, but you have 10k to go. During that last 10k, you continue your rotations every 5k miles. What you end up with is each tire being in two spots for 10k and the other two spots for 5k, while I get each tire in each spot for 7.5k. Be honest with yourself and ask which of those two is better for the tires? Last edited by Golconda; 03-19-2021 at 02:59 PM. |
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03-19-2021, 12:48 PM | #23 | ||||
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03-19-2021, 12:52 PM | #24 | |
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03-20-2021, 02:25 AM | #25 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Join Date: Aug 2018
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