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08-01-2020, 01:52 AM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
Recent Darton/LA Sleeve users
Hey everyone, it seems lately all the higher HP Subaru’s are running a stock sleeve closed deck block. I’m working on slowly building an ej257 and would like to possibly push some decent power in the future. The block I’m working on has been previously modified by outfront and was their “grocery getter” package. Long story short it spun a bearing and now I’m looking at either having it closed decked or sleeved. The block has been honed out to 99.75 Manley pistons and the cylinders have some light scoring so would have to go next size up. For what I’m planning to do in the future power wise, even if the block was closed decked the liners will be on borrowed time at 100mm so I have been considering getting the block sleeved. I have been looking into Darton and LA. I’m concerned with the sleeves dropping, I talked to Dave at LA Sleeves and even he said there is always a chance of it happening. Is there anyone running sleeved blocks these days and if so how are they holding up? I did some searching and was able to find some info on sleeves but from like 9 years ago, can’t seem to find any recent feedback/sleeve users. Input from people with first hand experience would be much appreciated!
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08-01-2020, 06:48 PM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 376219
Join Date: Dec 2013
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2 reasons for sleeves dropping. First, the counterbore for the flange should be machined with an end mill using circular interpolation on a CNC mill, not simply a 90 degree cutter in a boring bar. This guarantees that the counterbore is dead flat. Second, after the sleeves are installed by whatever method the shop uses and the block is back to room temp, they need to be final seated with deck plates before surfacing them flush with the deck. Pushing on the sleeves with a press does not do it, they need to be pulled in with plates. The sleeves will always end up at least .002" higher than they theoretically should after the block's temp stabilizes. This goes for any flanged sleeve in an aluminum block.
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08-01-2020, 07:06 PM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
Nope, "all of the higher HP Subaru's" aren't running stock sleeve closed deck blocks. Darton is also not the only sleeve available for Subarus.
This is the impression some get because all of the sleeved people aren't regularly posting to brag about their sleeved blocks. Some closed deck modded stock sleeved block owners however, are more likely to try and prove that they saved money without sleeves because closed deck modded blocks are really all you need. |
08-01-2020, 08:42 PM | #4 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-01-2020, 08:44 PM | #5 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-02-2020, 01:47 AM | #6 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
Larry's built mine with AEBS sleeves. I had a choice of Darton, LA, or AEBS. Of course the engine is still on the stand, plenty of work on the rest of the car before I can install it.
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08-02-2020, 07:38 PM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
Oh nice! What is your goal for the build, as in power wise? Any particular reason you went with AEBS over LA?
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08-02-2020, 08:14 PM | #8 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
Quote:
Not sure what my clutch will handle and want to drive it for a while to sort out any bugs. |
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08-02-2020, 11:16 PM | #9 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-02-2020, 11:36 PM | #10 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
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08-03-2020, 01:47 AM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
Platinum series? I’m looking at the JE ultras or time attacks and for rods considering Manley I beams, wiseco boostlines, saenz 4340 I beams, carillo pro h are expensive but sure would b nice to get those, callies are nice too but really expensive, also considered the cheaper BC Proh625+ as they’re rated at over 250hp per cylinder I just can’t find any people using them.
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08-03-2020, 03:49 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:2004 STi GTX3076R Rally Blue |
I run Darton sleeves in my car, it made 500whp on a gen 1 gtx3076@26psi.
I have been planning to turn things up more but have too many other projects plus building a house so I wanted to leave the "give it all the boost" for when I could pay to fix it "if" something happened. LOL These sleeves are relatively new to my build and it preformed at that same level on stock sleeves, I just installed them for future boost increases or turbo upgrades. |
08-03-2020, 04:52 PM | #13 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-03-2020, 06:25 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:2004 STi GTX3076R Rally Blue |
Quote:
I am not 100% sure if they are pinned but they are not O-ringed or anything special. I know the shop I used does a LOT of sleeves so I honestly just did what I always do and leave everything up to them. It's their window I would throw the block into if it wasn't correct. LOL One thing I feel should be mentioned was that we used a new set of case halves rather then using my old block as to get the most life out of things seeing this block will likely be the last one I will ever need for the car we wanted to be sure all the threads and fasteners would be ideal to start with. |
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08-03-2020, 07:53 PM | #15 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
I'm a big fan of Darton Sleeved blocks. I've used at least 8 on shop cars over the last 8 years and have never had one drop.
Closed deck saves you money up front, sleeves saves you from replacing blocks when you need to refresh/rebuild because they are so much stronger and way way more material future for bore/hone. |
08-03-2020, 08:59 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-04-2020, 07:03 AM | #17 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
The highest WHP we've run is 760whp on a mustang dyno. As far as events, all of the above. The most grueling from the block's perspective would probably be auto-X. I'm pretty aggressive and brake boost a lot of the coarse typically. I've never been on a road course with a really l-o-n-g straight, but did enjoy running the car at 1/2 mile events.
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08-04-2020, 02:44 PM | #18 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-04-2020, 08:29 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 90539
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: SWLA
Vehicle:My BOV goes COVFEFE! |
For that power level, most blocks have:
-Sleeves -Pinned mains -O-ringed decks There are people who run closed deck modded blocks at that level, but I'm not sure how many of those have pinned mains and I've heard some mention trying to o ring the deck but they usually stick with high quality head gaskets or "fire ring" hybrid type headgaskets. There are some who make it a few years and some who crack the oem liners much sooner.. Blame shifts around to this or that but I'd rather stick with aftermarket sleeves, since cracked liners can be eliminated from the blame equation. I used a very professional shop with tons of experience, so my only concerns will be tuning and my installation of externals and setup of safety mechanisms in the ecu. If I were to only be looking for a max of around 500whp and never planned to go any higher, I'd be confident running a closed deck setup and pinned mains with quality h beam rods and 2618 alloy pistons. This is just my opinion, based on what I've read on the forums since I've joined, what I've learned in A&P training, and my limited understanding of metallurgy and thermodynamics. |
08-05-2020, 01:35 AM | #20 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 326692
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cda, id
Vehicle:2012 sti |
Another issue with sleeves is head gasket sealing, ring slides around on sleeves vs aluminum it pushes into
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08-05-2020, 09:50 AM | #21 | ||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
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Being close to Darton East, they are now making available a pressed together pinned mains which should actually do the job of preventing shuffling. I'm not doing any monster builds anytime soon, so I doubt I'll put it into use myself in the foreseeable future. Keep in mind, this is just my own personal experience. I'm sure there are builders out there who have proven counter points to pinning. On the o-ring groove, it's a must-have in my opinion. Even for the lower power stuff (say 400whp) we use it. |
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08-05-2020, 01:02 PM | #22 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
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08-11-2020, 01:25 AM | #23 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
Any other long term sleeve users on here? I think i'm set on BC6606 rods, still deciding on what sleeves and what pistons to run.
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08-11-2020, 12:55 PM | #24 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 199190
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Darton sleeves installed by AR Fab, Diamond pistons, Callies rods w/CA625+ bolts, 14mm head studs with copper o- ringed Cometic headgasket. 760whp for 1 year, 3k miles
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08-11-2020, 01:28 PM | #25 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:2005 EVO VIII open source tuning subaru |
Nice, that’s the one with the gtx3584rs right? What part number for the callies rod? What size copper wire and protrusion height? Stepped deck?
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