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Old 09-22-2020, 01:09 PM   #501
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It must be a 3 door.

Quit screwing over the American hot hatch from the outset. It was the same story with the FiST..
Yup, I would have bought my Fiesta in 2rd if it was an option. The 2dr Yaris is way cooler looking that the 4dr.
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:27 PM   #502
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4 door version? Part of what makes this unique and cool is that they lowered the roof and eliminated the rear doors. Undo the cool thing because extra small car needs extra doors.




The part that makes it unique and cool to me is the drivetrain and widened track.

My daily has to have 4 doors (in this case a 4dr hatch); if it only comes as a 3dr it's a hard sell for me because that's "2nd/3rd vehicle" territory. There are plenty of fun 2/3dr cars on the market, the 4/5dr market sucks; they are all heavy, auto only, FWD or front-biased AWD, have an EJ, or some combination of them.

Sub 3,000lbs with a manual, a real AWD system and a decent amount of power, in a hatch from a manufacturer that is known for reliability? the only thing that would make it more desirable is if it came in a wagon.
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:44 PM   #503
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My daily has to have 4 doors (in this case a 4dr hatch); if it only comes as a 3dr it's a hard sell for me because that's "2nd/3rd vehicle" territory. There are plenty of fun 2/3dr cars on the market, the 4/5dr market sucks; they are all heavy, auto only, FWD or front-biased AWD, have an EJ, or some combination of them.
And this is why we didn't get it. See how that works.
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Old 09-22-2020, 01:48 PM   #504
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Yup, I would have bought my Fiesta in 2rd if it was an option. The 2dr Yaris is way cooler looking that the 4dr.
Agreed.. I call it a 3 door, but 2 doors and gate. That is how I wanted my FiST as well since they were offered in other markets. But oh well.

4 doors on a tiny car makes it look even cheaper and wimpier.. like a Chevy Spark or something.
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:04 PM   #505
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And this is why we didn't get it. See how that works.
No, the number of doors available is not why we didn't get it. We didn't get it because:
The majority of Americans buy CUV's.
North American Yaris sales in general have been in the crapper for years, which is why Toyota started selling rebadged Mazda 2's here in the first place.
North American sub-compact car sales have been in the crapper for years.
North Americans hatchback sales are worse than sedan sales for a given model.
American auto manufacturers aren't even going to sell cars (save sports/muscle/pony cars) in their home country anymore, what does that say about our market and what we will get?

The majority of people don't like small cars here, regardless of body style or quantity of doors.
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:11 PM   #506
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The majority of people don't like small cars here, regardless of body style or quantity of doors.

The majority of people here are fat (70+%) or obese (42%). This has something to do with the SIZE of the vehicle they buy. I get it, popularity. But popularity is things like the Masked Singer, or some other reality (Fake) tv show, social media (where people front). What the majority likes or doesn't like isn't all that important in regards to any performance car, whether that be a 3dr Yaris, or a Miata. They aren't going to buy it anyway. They want every trinket inside, an Ipad screen, room for their fat, their products, etc. Hence CUV/SUV popularity.



This car could be a DD for many. Many that own coupes today. So you saying this should be a 4 door is like someone else saying the Mustang should be a 4 door. The Camaro should be a 4 door, or get this, the Miata should be a 4 door drop top.
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:26 PM   #507
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The majority of people here are fat (70+%) or obese (42%). This has something to do with the SIZE of the vehicle they buy. I get it, popularity. But popularity is things like the Masked Singer, or some other reality (Fake) tv show, social media (where people front). What the majority likes or doesn't like isn't all that important in regards to any performance car, whether that be a 3dr Yaris, or a Miata. They aren't going to buy it anyway. They want every trinket inside, an Ipad screen, room for their fat, their products, etc. Hence CUV/SUV popularity.

This car could be a DD for many. Many that own coupes today. So you saying this should be a 4 door is like someone else saying the Mustang should be a 4 door. The Camaro should be a 4 door, or get this, the Miata should be a 4 door drop top.
I agree - overweight/obese, tech/"stuff" obsession; I can't speak to "reality" shows but I'm willing to bet regardless of the name, the format hasn't changed from the time when I used to have cable television (I've been just internet for a decade or so now).

The Yaris 5dr exists though; a 4dr Mustang, Camaro or Miata don't exist. Toyota even used a 5dr as a mule. I'm not saying exclusively as a 5dr either, just that a 5dr is what would definitely get me into one. I've got a 6yo and come November/December I'll have a newborn, getting modern car seats into and out of a small 3dr doesn't work out, then there is getting occupants out of the back in the case of an accident. I want airbags and crumple zones too, otherwise I'd exclusively drive old junk.

For the record, I would be interested in a 4dr mustang, not saying Ford should make one, but I'd be into it personally (not interested in a crossover EV with a mustang badge on it however).
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:32 PM   #508
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I’m thin and relatively short; I still like having a big vehicle. I commute in a compact hatchback and my wife has a compact wagon. Our midsize SUV just kills when we are bringing bikes along or hitting up state parks for the weekend, though. By the time you toss a duffle and some very basic outdoors gear for a 3 person family, things get really snug... even for skinny people. A 2 door Yaris would be no more practical than a BRZ, IMO — which was fine for dropping the kiddo off at pre-school and elementary school, but it was terrible with all 3 of us.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:15 PM   #509
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I agree - overweight/obese, tech/"stuff" obsession; I can't speak to "reality" shows but I'm willing to bet regardless of the name, the format hasn't changed from the time when I used to have cable television (I've been just internet for a decade or so now).

The Yaris 5dr exists though; a 4dr Mustang, Camaro or Miata don't exist. Toyota even used a 5dr as a mule. I'm not saying exclusively as a 5dr either, just that a 5dr is what would definitely get me into one. I've got a 6yo and come November/December I'll have a newborn, getting modern car seats into and out of a small 3dr doesn't work out, then there is getting occupants out of the back in the case of an accident. I want airbags and crumple zones too, otherwise I'd exclusively drive old junk.

For the record, I would be interested in a 4dr mustang, not saying Ford should make one, but I'd be into it personally (not interested in a crossover EV with a mustang badge on it however).

I hear ya. If I had kids I'd likely be the same if there just wasn't $ to have the fun vehicle + the DD. I just have no interest, even so, in DD'ing anything that is performance. For me, a dedicated cheap DD that was built for that purpose is the way to go. But I digress. Us getting a 3dr and 5dr of this will never happen. One section of enthusiasts would get pushed out one way or the other. I think it's better to leave it as a 3 door, not just because that's what I would want, but really the size of the car. My RS was a 5 door, but the rear seats were all but completely useless. The GR4 would likely be the same. They'd have to increase the size of the car, increase weight, etc. Because the same size car in 5 doors, those rear seats would be like being in the back of a BRZ or Mustang or something. And either way the GR-4 is a 3 door as launched.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:56 PM   #510
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I wouldn't care to use that 3 door Yaris for daily tasks. I'd mod it and treat it as a fun car only iike my Golf-R/STI.

When my kids were little I had a wagon and hatchback for daily tasks and a 2 seater and another coupe for fun. Practical cars for daily, fun cars you want to keep for fun should remain for fun.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:18 PM   #511
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Agreed.. I call it a 3 door, but 2 doors and gate. That is how I wanted my FiST as well since they were offered in other markets. But oh well.

4 doors on a tiny car makes it look even cheaper and wimpier.. like a Chevy Spark or something.
Can we please stop calling the GR Yaris tiny. It is larger in every dimension except length to the GD STI. Yup its true, even its track and wheel base is bigger. Only reason it is shorter is because it is a hatch, not a sedan or a wagon.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:32 AM   #512
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I hear ya. If I had kids I'd likely be the same if there just wasn't $ to have the fun vehicle + the DD. I just have no interest, even so, in DD'ing anything that is performance. For me, a dedicated cheap DD that was built for that purpose is the way to go. But I digress. Us getting a 3dr and 5dr of this will never happen. One section of enthusiasts would get pushed out one way or the other. I think it's better to leave it as a 3 door, not just because that's what I would want, but really the size of the car. My RS was a 5 door, but the rear seats were all but completely useless. The GR4 would likely be the same. They'd have to increase the size of the car, increase weight, etc. Because the same size car in 5 doors, those rear seats would be like being in the back of a BRZ or Mustang or something. And either way the GR-4 is a 3 door as launched.
To the boring DD comment: I have a minimum requirement for a DD, the GR Yaris surpasses it; I also have a minimum requirement for "fun weekend toy only" and the GR doesn't meet it. We are already a 3 car household, might become a 3car+truck household if the right deal comes along. I don't want to keep adding to the stable though, and I don't want to get rid of my current fun car for a modern car, my DD is the modern car.

To the size comment: My wife had an 07 Yaris, I could fit in the back seat behind her (although not behind myself), we could fit a rear-facing car seat behind her (again not behind me) but could fit a 5-point forward facing booster behind me. The GR Yaris is bigger in every dimension compared to that car; I can't imagine having difficulty getting my son and newborn to fit in it behind me and my wife respectively.

A 5dr won't work for you for your reasons (aesthetic, exclusivity, becauseracecar, etc.), but a 5dr would work for me for DD duty; we're just going to have to leave it at that.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:21 AM   #513
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sid- What is your current fun car you speak of?


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Can we please stop calling the GR Yaris tiny. It is larger in every dimension except length to the GD STI. Yup its true, even its track and wheel base is bigger. Only reason it is shorter is because it is a hatch, not a sedan or a wagon.
It's almost 2021. That is a tiny car by today's standards, but for you I will call it 'fun size'.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:35 AM   #514
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Can we please stop calling the GR Yaris tiny. It is larger in every dimension except length to the GD STI. Yup its true, even its track and wheel base is bigger. Only reason it is shorter is because it is a hatch, not a sedan or a wagon.

The Yaris wheelbase is about 1” longer (1%) and height is 1.5” taller (3%). The cabin isn’t as wide as an STI but the track is 3% wider because we are comparing B versus C segment platforms. The Yaris doesn’t have 20” of metal and plastic hanging off the back of the car that the STI does. This all impacts polar moment of inertia and getting a car to rotate.

The big difference is weight. The GR Yaris overall weighs 14% less than a GD STI and nearly 20% less than a current gen STI. Despite a few dimensions being similar, the GR Yaris is going to feel like a much smaller car because they took a subcompact car and pushed the wheels outward but leaving the weight largely centralized. Tiny isn’t just physical dimensions; the weight and how it carries it matters, too.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:06 AM   #515
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sid- What is your current fun car you speak of?
1966 Mustang coupe I've had since high school, it was my first car; started life as an I6-auto car, I remedied that early on, it's gone through a few transformations along the way. Currently a 2-bolt main 302 (.030 over so it's a "305"windsor, heads, cam, four barrel; mild stuff but fun & reliable), T5, 8" w/3.80s. I decided I was going to start a touring car-esque build over the fall/winter so it's already in pieces, hence my increased jonseing for a fun DD; I need my fix man I neeed my fix. The hardest part is I'm not a professional welder, and that's a skill I need to either sink the time in to get better at, or accept that I won't master and find someone I like that meets my standards. A cage that accommodates 2+2 seating & selective chassis stiffening are things I'm not skilled enough to do myself. Same with paint; I'm okay, but I don't have the equipment; body work I'm actually pretty good at, but not custom work like one-off flares, and welding comes in there too (not into glassing the whole car, it needs to be somewhat durable). I have too many hobbies if I say "car guy" it lumps a bunch of them into one. The old guts from this build will be used in a build for my wife if I can find a good shell (she wants a first gen vert, candy apple red of course) but I'll have to do an EFI conversion for her. It would be great if I had the new-to-me shell and a four car garage so I could disassemble one and assemble the other at the same time, but instead it will get moth-balled until I get a shell.

If you were to track my vehicle purchasing history, whenever my 66 goes under the knife, or I have to be separated from it (I did a stint in NYC, wasn't bringing it there) I pick up something fun to tool around in/on to keep me placated until it's ready again, time has always been a premium for me, undoubtedly though I end up modifying the other car/vehicle if I keep it too long, the IS was supposed to be the one I didn't do that too, but I've already been looking into a rotrex kit, gotta keep my urges under control.

The 66 is going to be up for longer than I'd like though, probably won't be ready until summer 2022 based on my available free time and what I want to accomplish, gotta reel my expectations/goals back in. Then considering the new baby & unexpected house projects my wife has me doing (at 7 months I pretty much "yes ma'am" my way through it) my fall time is going to be spent painting and installing wood floors in the babies room, and flooring my sons room "while I'm at it".

I thought the IS would scratch my RWD itch, but it's too refined, and the wheelbase it too long, the suspension is too well sorted; it's a very stable car. I need some drama when I hit the go pedal, it will be nice in the winter though so there's that.

Wife's already pissed that I took over the garage with a car that won't move for a while, and the other side with it's parts, adding another fun car to the fleet would be in poor taste, especially since I won't drive it through the winter; but a funner DD family car? that I could pull off. She likes boring Toyotas so I can't even pretend it's for her.

I was looking at a 65 falcon wagon or a 67 Nova wagon as my daily when I was getting rid of the WRX, but my wife freaked out at the prospect of our kids in the back of a 60's death trap regularly, hence the modern heavy weights I was looking at and ended up with.

We're not wealthy, we're comfortable & I like my hobbies.

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It's almost 2021. That is a tiny car by today's standards, but for you I will call it 'fun size'.
I'm good with fun size, we need more fun sized cars in the world, specifically in the USDM.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:31 AM   #516
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1966 Mustang coupe I've had since high school, it was my first car; started life as an I6-auto car, I remedied that early on, it's gone through a few transformations along the way.


I'm good with fun size, we need more fun sized cars in the world, specifically in the USDM.
That's cool. I didn't know you had another car besides the IS, well plus your wife's car.


Yeah, speaking of fun size, I got a letter from EPA to get my FiST's emissions checked.. I really don't want to visit public space right now.
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:37 AM   #517
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To the boring DD comment: I have a minimum requirement for a DD, the GR Yaris surpasses it; I also have a minimum requirement for "fun weekend toy only" and the GR doesn't meet it. We are already a 3 car household, might become a 3car+truck household if the right deal comes along. I don't want to keep adding to the stable though, and I don't want to get rid of my current fun car for a modern car, my DD is the modern car.

To the size comment: My wife had an 07 Yaris, I could fit in the back seat behind her (although not behind myself), we could fit a rear-facing car seat behind her (again not behind me) but could fit a 5-point forward facing booster behind me. The GR Yaris is bigger in every dimension compared to that car; I can't imagine having difficulty getting my son and newborn to fit in it behind me and my wife respectively.

A 5dr won't work for you for your reasons (aesthetic, exclusivity, becauseracecar, etc.), but a 5dr would work for me for DD duty; we're just going to have to leave it at that.



I understand your wants. But a 3dr is what they built for this trim, the GR4. Not a 5 door man. So really don't even understand the discussion.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:13 PM   #518
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That's cool. I didn't know you had another car besides the IS, well plus your wife's car.
Yeah I've had it forever, it's part of the family. It's the reason I don't want to go fourth vehicle at our current house unless it's a truck I can leave in the dirt parking spot. We're talking about moving in the next 5-6 years so I figured if I'm going to take the Mustang apart and put it back together again, now is the time; I'd rather drive it to our new house than tow it.
It's also the reason I hate a lot of aspects about modern cars, I've got my foot in the past still, and it's way more funner-er. putting in AC though, it's a creature comfort I'm going for this time around.

My wife used to be jealous of it, I mean she still is, but doesn't show it.

The IS will sit out in the snow for it . I bought it as a daily, I'm trying to treat it like a "regular car"; we took it to RI for a week, there is still sand in all the crevices; I'll give it a detail before it gets too cold out though. It's getting a tow bar soon too, if I can find attractive roof racks they will probably happen in the spring/late summer.

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Yeah, speaking of fun size, I got a letter from EPA to get my FiST's emissions checked.. I really don't want to visit public space right now.
I had to do that early on in Covid.. I wasn't happy about it, sanitized the S*** out of my car before I left the emissions place, even though they were following procedure (gloves, mask, limiting entry to the building etc.) still skeeved me out; good luck man.

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I understand your wants. But a 3dr is what they built for this trim, the GR4. Not a 5 door man. So really don't even understand the discussion.
The discussion is what we'd like to see hit the US market; you want 3 doors, I want 5, but what we're actually going to get is a F****** warmed over Corolla hatch instead; no thanks, regardless of how many doors it has.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:48 PM   #519
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The discussion is what we'd like to see hit the US market; you want 3 doors, I want 5, but what we're actually going to get is a F****** warmed over Corolla hatch instead; no thanks, regardless of how many doors it has.
Still not seeing how that works.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:38 PM   #520
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The discussion is what we'd like to see hit the US market; you want 3 doors, I want 5, but what we're actually going to get is a F****** warmed over Corolla hatch instead; no thanks, regardless of how many doors it has.

the only way we are going to get it is via Subaru rebadged and possibly a different motor in it. Toyo USA knows we are disappointed. They also know the Corolla is a joke to us. From what I am reading, Toyo wants to recoup GR4 development costs. Toyo wanted to bring it here, was prepared to pay for certification, etc as they are hard at work changing their image here and abroad. It could have been as simple as Subaru barking to them about them bringing a competitor to the STi and don't want that. Last year and recently we hear news of a possible Subaru hatchback, WRC this and that, and all that BS. So % wise is low, but remains a possibility. Reading all the data there is something between both of these companies, ownership, type of car, etc. etc.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:59 PM   #521
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Yeah I've had it forever, it's part of the family. It's the reason I don't want to go fourth vehicle at our current house unless it's a truck I can leave in the dirt parking spot. We're talking about moving in the next 5-6 years so I figured if I'm going to take the Mustang apart and put it back together again, now is the time; I'd rather drive it to our new house than tow it.
It's also the reason I hate a lot of aspects about modern cars, I've got my foot in the past still, and it's way more funner-er. putting in AC though, it's a creature comfort I'm going for this time around.

My wife used to be jealous of it, I mean she still is, but doesn't show it.

The IS will sit out in the snow for it . I bought it as a daily, I'm trying to treat it like a "regular car"; we took it to RI for a week, there is still sand in all the crevices; I'll give it a detail before it gets too cold out though. It's getting a tow bar soon too, if I can find attractive roof racks they will probably happen in the spring/late summer.

I had to do that early on in Covid.. I wasn't happy about it, sanitized the S*** out of my car before I left the emissions place, even though they were following procedure (gloves, mask, limiting entry to the building etc.) still skeeved me out; good luck man.
Vintage cars are fun in its own way. One of my buddies was into vintage Chevy's and it was pretty cool cruising around town in them. I use to help him detail it for local car shows and stuff. I think it's great for someone that has the knowledge and expertise and most importantly TIME to tinker around to rebuild it and customize them.

Usually I'm out traveling for business so I only have very limited time during the weekdays and only on weekends do I have the time to drive and tinker around my car hobby for a couple of hours.. so considering I've been working from home since mid-March and no business trips, this has been a fantastic year to get A LOT of stuff done around the house and cars.

Thanks, I'll have to bring some disposable gloves to the EPA station and wear it when done. I don't expect my FiST to have any emissions issue so should go pretty quick. The car sits on my driveway most of the time so UV and natural quarantine (time) should do the trick.
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:22 PM   #522
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I understand your wants. But a 3dr is what they built for this trim, the GR4. Not a 5 door man. So really don't even understand the discussion.
You sound like the jokers who swore up and down that the wrx/sti should only be a sedan, no hatches.. It's just someone noting a personal preference.

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Originally Posted by oichan View Post
Yeah, speaking of fun size, I got a letter from EPA to get my FiST's emissions checked.. I really don't want to visit public space right now.
Should be fine man... no need for gloves, just wash your hands before touching things. But it does seem like something that could/should be put on hold right now. I love that WA doesn't require any emissions testing on vehicles from 2009 and newer.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:24 PM   #523
4S-TURBO
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
You sound like the jokers who swore up and down that the wrx/sti should only be a sedan, no hatches.. It's just someone noting a personal preference.
Can you elaborate? Because I would say Pre is doing the exact opposite.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:35 PM   #524
kayen
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
The Yaris wheelbase is about 1” longer (1%) and height is 1.5” taller (3%). The cabin isn’t as wide as an STI but the track is 3% wider because we are comparing B versus C segment platforms. The Yaris doesn’t have 20” of metal and plastic hanging off the back of the car that the STI does. This all impacts polar moment of inertia and getting a car to rotate.

The big difference is weight. The GR Yaris overall weighs 14% less than a GD STI and nearly 20% less than a current gen STI. Despite a few dimensions being similar, the GR Yaris is going to feel like a much smaller car because they took a subcompact car and pushed the wheels outward but leaving the weight largely centralized. Tiny isn’t just physical dimensions; the weight and how it carries it matters, too.
I am not sure if you are arguing here or you just strengthened my point that it is not tiny? Of course comparing it to cars of today, yes it is much smaller. But I am sure if STI, the true division of STI had a saying in what chassis it would be based on, it would not be the current SGP Impreza. It would be smaller and light weight.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:28 AM   #525
quentinberg007
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Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I am not sure if you are arguing here or you just strengthened my point that it is not tiny? Of course comparing it to cars of today, yes it is much smaller. But I am sure if STI, the true division of STI had a saying in what chassis it would be based on, it would not be the current SGP Impreza. It would be smaller and light weight.

It is like a full size versus a queen size bed. They shouldn’t seem that different in size based on the dimensions but they sure feel different.

The GR Yaris will feel tiny because it is based off a B segment car that had the wheels pulled outward and it is 400lbs lighter than a GD STi — a platform designed 20 years ago. Comparing wheelbase means little when they are the same for all practical purposes. It isn’t like the GR Yaris has a 110” wheelbase.
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