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Old 12-19-2020, 05:13 PM   #26
AliBenn
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Im proud that I asked correct questions!!!
You answered supremely with pix.

Soooooo
When rad mounted in trunk.......
You thinking cut deck lid or cut floor with badass diffuser scooping/directing air to radiator??
Hell....both?
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Old 12-23-2020, 01:23 PM   #27
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I want to keep the trunk useable on this car for now. My idea at the moment is to cut out the spare tire well and make the trunk flat. Then mount the radiator directly underneath the trunk compartment. The airflow wouldn't be great but that would allow me to go extreme on the radiator size. Excessive coolant capacity and cooling fans will make up for lack of airflow but it's a weight penalty.

I have mocked it up a few times but no pictures, sorry. The radiator mounts horizontal with the end at the rear bumper tilted upwards, only a few degrees nothing crazy. Puller fans go on the bottom and the coolant hoses go on top, basically reverse locations compared to normal radiator. I would still need to integrate a diffuser that channels air on the bottom and pulls air away from the fans. Rear radiator setup like this works very well but is susceptible to debris damage. To put it in simple terms imagine stuffing a radiator into the space commonly used for a larger rear bumper diffuser and extending it all the way to the rear subframe

Option "B" is to use the current Subaru rally setup which would vent from the rear doors into the trunk compartment and out the trunk lid back. The radiator would be somewhere between the rear shock towers or slightly further back if a larger size is necessary.


The small block V8 has one big disadvantage compared to the Subaru EJ. It requires a lot more cooling capacity/efficiency. The EJ puts out considerably less heat and sheds heat faster.
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Old 03-14-2021, 01:38 PM   #28
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Cool thread, look forward to seeing some more updates in the future. Thanks for sharing
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Old 03-23-2021, 03:08 PM   #29
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Awesome job!!! I don't know how I missed this thread.This is an insane build, I love it. All the V8 swaps I've seen are very interesting and impressive in there own right, but this is another level by keeping the AWD system intact.

I wish there was a way to get the motor moved further back but I understand the layout of these cars just won't allow for it. I'd love to be able to stuff a N/A LSx or LT2 (heck, I'm not a fan of Ford but the Coyote engines are impressive as well) in my car, close the hood and no one be the wiser till you start it up...this is the closet I guess I'll ever get to seeing that.

Even when you mentioned the Audi V8s being more compact...it made me reminisce about thinking whether a W8 would fit in one of our vehicles after seeing RWD LS swaps...but it would probably be a nightmare to even attempt it and not worth the effort compared to an LS swap like this.

Prior to this the Hondaru swap was about the most interesting swap for me just because it kept the AWD system. Again, love seeing people with your fabrication skills build what people like me can only imagine.

Last edited by Gixhost; 03-23-2021 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 03-23-2021, 03:47 PM   #30
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I'm not the first to do this actually...

There is a big turbo LS black 2007-ish STi with the motor way further back into the firewall. Even further than rwd swaps. That car is using an awd automatic. I assume he is using a truck/suv LS related transmission with the axles through the oil pan ala Chevy Trailblazer. The slicks on that car put it in the big tire category. Supposedly this car is in Mexico.

The other car I found is a blue bugeye which did a body lift (Subaru Forester style of spacing the body away from the subaframe) to get the engine to clear. That car uses an elbow that kills airflow on top of an intake similar to mine. He is running a small single though. Motion race works had that car on their Facebook page but all they said was AWD. I don't know what transmission it is using but based on my build it is likely a Subaru transmission.



...I forgot, a small single on an LS is a 7875, a large single is at least an 8088.

Last edited by shadowcompany; 03-23-2021 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 04-01-2021, 01:31 PM   #31
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Wow that thing is INSANE! I'm surprised this is the first time I've seen something like this but its hott
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Old 04-01-2021, 11:22 PM   #32
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Dyno?
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Old 04-12-2021, 06:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogieOneCanobie View Post
Dyno?
sure


This is with the 5.3 I built for boost running naturally aspirated. This is only my baseline.


Last edited by shadowcompany; 04-12-2021 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 08-23-2021, 01:29 PM   #34
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I forgot about posting a sound clip. The exhaust is unequal from LH to RH cylinder banks and thats a 4" single exit


Late night at test & tune, sorry about the music in the background
If you didn't know stock LS rods, crank, and pistons rev just fine to 8,000 rpm. Valve springs and lifters are usually the limitation.


This is not the same engine as the dyno, this one is a stock 6.0 liter with an aftermarket camshaft and cylinders heads making over 440whp on 93 octane through the 6MT.


Does not matter anyway, this was always the final goal:


Last edited by shadowcompany; 08-23-2021 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:52 AM   #35
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Progression...



Conventional LS intake manifold fits too



Single disc clutches do not last long with the 8 cylinder so...


Clutch Masters HRB setup, I dont know why everybody is on that Exedy hot dog



Clutch Masters Flywheel



7.25" twin disc











PTT clutch works with Clutch Masters flywheel
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Old 09-10-2021, 11:07 AM   #36
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:49 PM   #37
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Old 10-20-2021, 04:46 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcompany View Post
I'm not the first to do this actually...

There is a big turbo LS black 2007-ish STi with the motor way further back into the firewall. Even further than rwd swaps. That car is using an awd automatic. I assume he is using a truck/suv LS related transmission with the axles through the oil pan ala Chevy Trailblazer. The slicks on that car put it in the big tire category. Supposedly this car is in Mexico.
Do you have any more information/links on the setup with the GM drivetrain? I am interested to see how this was done.
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Old 10-20-2021, 05:20 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
Do you have any more information/links on the setup with the GM drivetrain? I am interested to see how this was done..
Look up

Vbr ayala Performance

Quote:
I assume he is using a truck/suv LS related transmission with the axles through the oil pan ala Chevy Trailblazer. The slicks on that car put it in the big tire category. Supposedly this car is in Mexico.
With how far back the engine is in that car it only makes sense the firewall was cut and the trans tunnel was sectioned to accommodate the transfer case. Pop the hood on any GM truck/suv with AWD and LS then look under the car....it really doesn't get more detailed than that. Everything else would have to be entirely custom anyway. It may just be more prudent to just throw a subaru chassis on top of an AWD V8 GM frame.....

Chapu_2JZ is another good example, 2jz awd turbo in a GC8. Only the shape of the car remains, everything custom underneath.

There is also Kolosov_vitaliy, he has a GC8 with a subaru engine and a custom awd transfer case setup. I think he's using a powerglide or TH400, edit: he's using a skyline front diff but I'm not sure on the transfer case.
I learned from his build that the hub end of the axle splines is the same between the older skyline GTR and subaru. You can plop the RB26DETT and awd 5 speed into a subaru and it might not be a bad fit...except for the engine being crap and really tall.

Those are all custom one off cars. Subaru platform is heavily centered on the transmission which makes most swaps either custom or fruitless. Rotary in a subaru with a subaru awd transmission makes the most sense and has been done but its overly expensive. Audi is slightly better, chassis/transmission wise, for awd swaps but the factory car itself isn't very performance/racing oriented. Audi actually builds awd v8 (ie; RS4, S5) cars but never the less, a B7 A4 with an A5/S5 awd trans and an LS exists.

Last edited by shadowcompany; 10-20-2021 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 10-20-2021, 11:14 PM   #40
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Thanks for the info. Vbr ayala Performance doesn't detail their build too much unfortunately but I think I have a good enough idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcompany View Post

With how far back the engine is in that car it only makes sense the firewall was cut and the trans tunnel was sectioned to accommodate the transfer case. Pop the hood on any GM truck/suv with AWD and LS then look under the car....it really doesn't get more detailed than that. Everything else would have to be entirely custom anyway. It may just be more prudent to just throw a subaru chassis on top of an AWD V8 GM frame.....

Chapu_2JZ is another good example, 2jz awd turbo in a GC8. Only the shape of the car remains, everything custom underneath.
Correct me if I miss anything, but the majority of the heavy custom fab work would be a custom front subframe, custom rear subframe (assuming a GM rear diff is used), a gutted/cut trans tunnel and a cut firewall. Moving the seat/steering wheel/pedals back like new Gymkhana Subaru would help too, but probably isn't required. The main frame, floor, suspension, and all other important bits should be able to remain the same right? The end result would be a much stronger driveline and a better weight distribution. Definitely a lot of effort to get there though.

I am curious how the GM front diff connected to the Subaru axle splines. Perhaps a custom axle too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcompany View Post

There is also Kolosov_vitaliy, he has a GC8 with a subaru engine and a custom awd transfer case setup. I think he's using a powerglide or TH400, edit: he's using a skyline front diff but I'm not sure on the transfer case.
I learned from his build that the hub end of the axle splines is the same between the older skyline GTR and subaru. You can plop the RB26DETT and awd 5 speed into a subaru and it might not be a bad fit...except for the engine being crap and really tall.
I believe the Skyline uses the ATTESA system, which is fully electronic. A lot of computer/electronic tomfoolery would be involved with that. Rob Dahm used one with his never ending 4 rotor project. He mated it with a sequential, I'm not sure how he got all the electronics to play nice together. His budget is near infinite, so he can do whatever he wants lol.
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Old 10-22-2021, 01:43 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
Correct me if I miss anything, but the majority of the heavy custom fab work would be a custom front subframe, custom rear subframe (assuming a GM rear diff is used), a gutted/cut trans tunnel and a cut firewall. Moving the seat/steering wheel/pedals back like new Gymkhana Subaru would help too, but probably isn't required. The main frame, floor, suspension, and all other important bits should be able to remain the same right? The end result would be a much stronger driveline and a better weight distribution. Definitely a lot of effort to get there though.
The shock towers, rockers, roof, pillars, and exterior sheetmetal don't need to be modified. For the floor, firewall, and transmission tunnel it would depend on the size of transmission you use: TH400/4L80, 4L60, powerglide, etc. The transfer case also takes up a lot of space.

The front frame rails wont need to be cut unless the suspension is changed up.
Subaru front suspension relies on the subframe, the steering rack location, spindle mounting points, control arm triangle. A custom front suspension opens up the possibilty of ditching the MacPherson setup and/or the stock suspension geometry. The Gymkhana subaru didn't have to follow any rulebook when it was built so a lot of different ideas were thrown at it. A lot was done to make the car stable in jumps and prevent excessive pitch when landing. The seat/steering wheel/pedals location has more to do with the driver and safety.

The Type RA NBR that Prodrive built for Subaru may be a better example of what actually works.


Moving the pedals, seat, engine really won't help much in a subaru, its already a ~100" wheelbase. Its really one of those things when you run out of ideas of what you can do with the platform. It has been an obsession in racing for a long time to create 50/50 weight distribution and push as much weight to the center but all it really does is change the handling characteristics of the car and not necessarily for better or worse. The idea behind this is to change the center of inertia. What if you cannot take advantage of that and the car isn't any faster? The Lancer Evolution and WRX STI have terrible weight distribution and yet they are still competitive in racing.

Like I mentioned before, it makes more sense to cut the bottom of a subaru shell out and install it onto another frame, even a custom tube chassis. Its not like the subaru rear diff or suspension is any good either...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
I am curious how the GM front diff connected to the Subaru axle splines. Perhaps a custom axle too?
Custom axles and more likely custom uprights/spindles. GM also has two different styles of front diff mounting, that would change the location of the axle centerline. One is similar to Nissan/Infiniti, differential is attached to oil pan and axle goes through a hole in oil pan. The other style is more common on trucks where the differential is below the engine or in front of it and attached to the suspension/chassis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
I believe the Skyline uses the ATTESA system, which is fully electronic. A lot of computer/electronic tomfoolery would be involved with that. Rob Dahm used one with his never ending 4 rotor project. He mated it with a sequential, I'm not sure how he got all the electronics to play nice together. His budget is near infinite, so he can do whatever he wants lol.
The ATTESA system is about as complicated as going from a caesar salad to a grilled chicken caesar salad with french dressing instead....

There are aftermarket controllers such as ETS PRO that can control ATTESA. I think even Motec has an ECU that supports it out of the box.

Working swaps with Subaru DCCD, Mitsubishi ACD, and Audi Quattro happen all the time which in my opinion are much better AWD systems. Nissan just offers a longitudinal transfer case.
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Old 10-22-2021, 01:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcompany View Post
The shock towers, rockers, roof, pillars, and exterior sheetmetal don't need to be modified. For the floor, firewall, and transmission tunnel it would depend on the size of transmission you use: TH400/4L80, 4L60, powerglide, etc. The transfer case also takes up a lot of space.
My current plan is to use a TR6060 with an LOJ (or equivalent) transfer case adapter. The transfer case will definitely be an annoying piece to work around. It will probably end up right around the driver seat which makes clearance fun.
Converting my GD to an AWD LSX has been has been a desire for a long time now. Right now, it's just a dream but hopefully within the next year I can get started. Your forum posts here and on LS1tech have been a gold mine, I can't thank you enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcompany View Post
The front frame rails wont need to be cut unless the suspension is changed up.
Subaru front suspension relies on the subframe, the steering rack location, spindle mounting points, control arm triangle. A custom front suspension opens up the possibilty of ditching the MacPherson setup and/or the stock suspension geometry.
Would an LS engine plate connected to the frame rails work well here? Depending on oil pan clearance, the stock front crossmember may be able to remain. I know the awd oil pan uses a front sump which is garbage, but that is a whole separate problem.
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Old 10-22-2021, 02:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
My current plan is to use a TR6060 with an LOJ (or equivalent) transfer case adapter....
The awd pan has the diff on the LH side which would work with the LOJ adapter but there just isn't space for all that hardware and the stock suspension unless the body is lifted (subframe spacers, longer steering column, longer struts/springs, offset control arm) and you end up with something that handles like a forester.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
Would an LS engine plate connected to the frame rails work well here? Depending on oil pan clearance, the stock front crossmember may be able to remain. I know the awd oil pan uses a front sump which is garbage, but that is a whole separate problem.
Motorplate was an idea I had for the future. A mid plate or front end plate would work and can even be mounted on bushings at the chassis. Its a clever design to use a plate to mount the engine but the engine has to move really far back to clear the subframe.

The stock baffling just isn't effective in the AWD oil pan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunshed View Post
Converting my GD to an AWD LSX has been has been a desire for a long time now. Right now, it's just a dream but hopefully within the next year I can get started. Your forum posts here and on LS1tech have been a gold mine, I can't thank you enough.
I built my car around the fact that once the subaru powertrain layout has to be changed then I will just switch to a better platform. Its not a subaru for me if it no longer has a center diff in the middle of the car.

Nissan platforms like the Z33/V35, Z34/V36, and R35 GT-R would be a better platform for an AWD LSX with a manual. The G35 and G37 came AWD (automatic only unfortunately), transfer case, ATTESA....modern day skyline. There is also the FX45 if you wanted an SUV type thing.
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Old 12-03-2021, 06:17 AM   #44
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Default This is sick!!

How has this car come along? What is making now if you still have it?
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:47 PM   #45
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As far as modifying the Subaru drivetrain, look up Andy Forrest. He moved the engine and trans back a ton and used chains to maintain power to the front wheels. Kind of a dream of mine...
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Old 12-04-2021, 11:19 AM   #46
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How has this car come along? What is making now if you still have it?
Car is in pieces. Trying to develop a second car and maybe create a bolt in kit.
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Old 01-22-2022, 10:32 AM   #47
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Clutch Masters hooked me up, again. I asked them to make a couple of adapter plates so I can modify them for use as a midplate/subaru motor mount bracket.





Original adapter on the right, mocked up on an EJ20


Anyway, I've heard some things. I heard an Aluminum LS weighs over 450 pounds and is enormous in size. I also heard someone likes mudkips.


EJ205 Long block with Water pump and oil pump
Missing valve shim buckets, crank pulley, timing components, timing belt, crank pulley and cam gears. ~177lbs





Same thing, added DAVCS cam gears. ~193lbs
Still missing the rest of the timing components, I think ~200lbs total would be a generous estimate if I had a belt, covers, idlers, timing tensioner, crank pulley, and all associated bolts on there. That and I think this long block still had oil in it.





The subaru motor needs a turbo to keep up with a chevy small block. Lets add a mitsubishi hair dryer to the weight. ~206lbs




Trying to be realistic with the displacement difference.
Added an S366 with an AGP turbine housing (lighter than Borg) and a Tial MVR. ~217lbs

Last time I weighed an aluminum LS it was ~313lbs including the crank pulley, oil pan, and all the covers. It didn't have the adapter plate for the transmission on it nor a water pump but the 313lbs did include a 9lbs engine lift plate and chain. I didn't include the manifolds, accessories, nor intercooler because those can vary a lot in weight. LS engines came with plastic intake manifolds just like subaru and there are plenty of aftermarket headers. The point being is the weight penalty is realistically less than 100lbs and the LS is much narrower. An Iron long block LS (which I have also tried and yes, at that point the weight does become noticeable) would weigh around 200lbs more than the EJ but if Subaru made an iron block EJ, I probably wouldn't have bothered with this swap.
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Old 01-22-2022, 10:32 AM   #48
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Some more pictures of how the engines compare in overall size. One thing to note is that the LS block pictured has the crankshaft centerline lower than the EJ. The main caps and crank are missing, the empty bore in the middle is for the camshaft. That would place the LS camshaft roughly at or above the alternator on an EJ. However, LS engines can mount the alternator and P/S pump where the EJ cylinder heads would be.







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Old 03-14-2022, 01:22 PM   #49
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Very cool build, I was looking to do this to my wagon as well. Glad someone was able to do it. I imagine with a battery relocation to the rear and radiator it will help with the weight distribution to some extent. I was considering a 3.5 ecoboost into mine as well just for it being a little shorter.
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:13 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogfrogjog View Post
Very cool build, I was looking to do this to my wagon as well. Glad someone was able to do it. I imagine with a battery relocation to the rear and radiator it will help with the weight distribution to some extent. I was considering a 3.5 ecoboost into mine as well just for it being a little shorter.
There is nothing wrong with the weight distribution, it's still as terrible as stock. You still have a 200+ lb AWD gearbox in the middle of the car and the engine stays in the same spot.
Unless you are in an unlimited racing class there is no reason to consider weight distribution. The weight difference really is insignificant, it's 90lbs..... There are plenty of other issues with Subarus to consider before you get there, ie; MacPherson suspension, unremarkable aerodynamics, chassis designed for absorbing impacts, tall roof line, narrow track, high speed instability, etc.

If the Ecoboost is longer than 22 inches from crank pulley to bell housing then stick with an EJ or LS.
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