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Old 07-16-2021, 10:04 PM   #1
nick d
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Default STI first oil change

hi all, Nick here, just got my first STI a few weeks back, 2021, was gonna do my first oil change after break in, I am at 2500 km, was gonna use Motul 8100 x clean+! what u guys think about that?
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Old 07-17-2021, 09:00 AM   #2
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Hi Nick
Congrats on the STi

You will get opinions /answers for days on what oil is right for your STi

Just make sure it meets the spec in the manual!
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Old 07-17-2021, 10:27 AM   #3
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Don't listen to the opinions, just have an oil analysis done at your next oil change from someplace like Blackstone Labs. This will not only let you see when break-in is truly complete, but will let you know if the oil you're using is best for you; your engine wear, mods, driving style, fuel, environmental conditions, driving type, and so on... is best for you and your specific conditions.
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:50 PM   #4
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1) Buy WEIOS oil
2) Change oil at 6k miles with a non-Fram filter
3) Don't overthink things.


(WEIOS = whatever is on sale)
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Old 07-17-2021, 07:37 PM   #5
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WEIOS is the best oil.
Has never failed me
Of course, I change my oil regularly.

Just stay away from thin synthetics
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Old 07-17-2021, 10:20 PM   #6
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My 310,000 mile Subaru has run a trouble free life almost exclusively on SuperTech from Walmart AKA the cheapest oil on the planet. Unless you have a Jacky Ickx poster in your garage, you are likely going to do nothing but waste money on anything more expensive than you can get at Walmart.
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
My 310,000 mile Subaru has run a trouble free life almost exclusively on SuperTech from Walmart AKA the cheapest oil on the planet. Unless you have a Jacky Ickx poster in your garage, you are likely going to do nothing but waste money on anything more expensive than you can get at Walmart.
Ain't that with 3 engines tho Ron?
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Old 07-18-2021, 12:07 PM   #8
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Don't flush your money down the toilet on an oil analysis. This is a stupid car, not a piston engine airplane that you plane on traversing the pacific with.
Do your oil change, then if the break in isn't complete. . . . .wait for it. . . . .it will continue to break in and then do another oil change.
After the 2nd and a few thousand miles you could go to a normal interval and rest assured it's just a car engine and doesn't need to be monitored like the space shuttle pre re-entry into our atmosphere
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:23 AM   #9
Bianchifan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
Don't flush your money down the toilet on an oil analysis. This is a stupid car, not a piston engine airplane that you plane on traversing the pacific with.
Do your oil change, then if the break in isn't complete. . . . .wait for it. . . . .it will continue to break in and then do another oil change.
After the 2nd and a few thousand miles you could go to a normal interval and rest assured it's just a car engine and doesn't need to be monitored like the space shuttle pre re-entry into our atmosphere

An oil analysis isn't very expensive, and might even be considered a bargain compared to some of the goofy cosmetic "mods" people tend to do to their cars.


I may be biased, being in the testing business (in a field totally unrelated to cars and engines) but I find the long term trends interesting. I have one car with 250,000 miles on it and I've done an oil analysis every 20-30 thousand miles or so since new. In other words, every couple years. It is nice to know there is no water, gas or antifreeze getting into the oil, that my filter is keeping particulates out of the oil, that the viscosity is still where it should be at oil-change time and that the additives are not depleted yet. And that I'm not getting any wear metals in my sample. I switched oil brands (from Castrol to Pennzoil) because the additives in the Castrol were always borderline depleted when I changed the oil. Nice things to know.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianchifan View Post
An oil analysis isn't very expensive, and might even be considered a bargain compared to some of the goofy cosmetic "mods" people tend to do to their cars.


I may be biased, being in the testing business (in a field totally unrelated to cars and engines) but I find the long term trends interesting. I have one car with 250,000 miles on it and I've done an oil analysis every 20-30 thousand miles or so since new. In other words, every couple years. It is nice to know there is no water, gas or antifreeze getting into the oil, that my filter is keeping particulates out of the oil, that the viscosity is still where it should be at oil-change time and that the additives are not depleted yet. And that I'm not getting any wear metals in my sample. I switched oil brands (from Castrol to Pennzoil) because the additives in the Castrol were always borderline depleted when I changed the oil. Nice things to know.
If you just enjoy watching trends that is one thing, but it is a total waste of time for a general consumer car.
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Old 07-19-2021, 01:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
If you just enjoy watching trends that is one thing, but it is a total waste of time for a general consumer car.

Agree to disagree.
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Old 07-20-2021, 09:41 AM   #12
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The Subaru oil debate is a heated one and one of the most meme-able components of our culture... welcome!

You're going to get a million opinions so I'll just share with you what I do and you can do with that information as you please.

I use 8100 and Subaru filters. Motul fluids are expensive, yes, but I don't care to spend $20 more per oil change knowing I'm using something good. Is the cheap stuff just as good? Perhaps, but I'm not smart enough to tell you that, AND as you have read above, many people have had a great amount of success using cheaper oil. I like cheap insurance, and $20 per oil change is cheap to me.

I have never spent the money for an oil analysis.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:15 AM   #13
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe159 View Post
The Subaru oil debate is a heated one and one of the most meme-able components of our culture... welcome!

You're going to get a million opinions so I'll just share with you what I do and you can do with that information as you please.

I use 8100 and Subaru filters. Motul fluids are expensive, yes, but I don't care to spend $20 more per oil change knowing I'm using something good. Is the cheap stuff just as good? Perhaps, but I'm not smart enough to tell you that, AND as you have read above, many people have had a great amount of success using cheaper oil. I like cheap insurance, and $20 per oil change is cheap to me.

I have never spent the money for an oil analysis.
It's worth it
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
It's worth it
^classic baseless assertion

worth it for what objective reason?
I don't do any of the nonsense you guys talk about (UOA's, expensive oil, short intervals, etc) and my car is at 134,000 miles currently and runs just as good as the day I got it.

So what exactly am I trying to achieve by doing something different?
Is an engine with no detectable deterioration well into 6 figure mileage NOT a success? Should the engine be improving from new at this point?

Just not sure what my expectations should be.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:59 AM   #15
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
^classic baseless assertion

worth it for what objective reason?
I don't do any of the nonsense you guys talk about (UOA's, expensive oil, short intervals, etc) and my car is at 134,000 miles currently and runs just as good as the day I got it.

So what exactly am I trying to achieve by doing something different?
Is an engine with no detectable deterioration well into 6 figure mileage NOT a success? Should the engine be improving from new at this point?

Just not sure what my expectations should be.
I think Blackstone tests make the most sense on cars with mileage, since I like to know my engine isn't going to spin a bearing in ~10k miles before I start modifying it, turning up power, or pushing it hard at the track, or even just start beating on it on the street.

Blackstone has analyzed thousands of oil samples and hundreds if not thousands of EJ samples specifically, they can certainly tell you more about your engine than just a typical compression and leakdown test alone.

I look at it like this, what is your alternative to analyze internal wear for an engine? Tearing it down? No thanks. To me that makes a cheap Blackstone test quick insurance to make sure I am not throwing money and time into an engine with bearing wear.

I'd rather pay Blackstone $40 to have them analyze the elemental components of my oil and tell me in plain English what it means for my engine and its health.

There's no need to test every oil change whatsoever, but especially before beginning modification, getting an oil analysis certainly gives solid piece of mind.

Most of that is beside the point of what this post was about since OP's car is brand new and still in break-in.

OP was advised by Killer B to get an oil analysis to determine when break in would actually stop, which can really only be determined by the amount of metal in the oil, every engine is different, makes sense to me to get one.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 07-20-2021 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:42 AM   #16
Bianchifan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
There's no need to test every oil change whatsoever....

That's a good point. I think sometimes people are assuming we do it with every oil change. I'm sure some do, but most do not. On my daily-driver, I do one about every fourth oil change. Divide the cost by four, and it's just a few bucks per oil change.


I might decide to do it more often if I'm concerned about some issues, or if I've changed oil or filter brands, etc.


The example I mentioned earlier about Castrol GTX is a good one. This is in my daily-driver Chevy Cobalt.... By 5000 miles, the oil's "base additives" (compounds added to the oil formula to resist the oil's tendency to become more and more acidic as it ages) were very close to being depleted. Blackstone was concerned enough to mention it with each analysis report. So I switched brands.... And now the reports show there is still a safe amount of additive left. In other words, I used the analysis to make a change that benefited my car. In the long run, does it matter? Well, maybe, maybe not. I keep my cars pretty much forever (this one replaced an earlier car which I kept to 325K miles) and using a more durable oil helps it last. I switched brands back at about 60K miles, and have added almost 200K since, so all is well so far. Even the most recent analysis came back with no signs of wear, etc.


I don't mean this as a knock on Castrol; it just wasn't the right oil for my particular use. Maybe on a Ford or a Honda or a VW or a Subaru it would give different results (or maybe even if my driving habits were different) it might perform better.

My new WRX won't be a daily driver - too much salt on the roads here for that - but an occasional oil analysis will be interesting.
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Old 07-20-2021, 01:46 PM   #17
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^so if you get a piece of paper you don't like but have no noticeable engine issues, are you going to do a rebuild based solely on that piece of paper?

serious question btw. Always curious because this is kind of like the guys who do a compression test but have zero issues at all, and then start asking what to do because the number on the paper isn't what they thought it should be
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Old 07-20-2021, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
^so if you get a piece of paper you don't like but have no noticeable engine issues, are you going to do a rebuild based solely on that piece of paper?

serious question btw. Always curious because this is kind of like the guys who do a compression test but have zero issues at all, and then start asking what to do because the number on the paper isn't what they thought it should be
Generally, Blackstone will give you a recommendation as to how to proceed if you have higher metal counts than normal. Might be to change the oil slightly more often to see if the counts stay high or start going down. It's a game of "depends".
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Old 07-20-2021, 03:33 PM   #19
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
^so if you get a piece of paper you don't like but have no noticeable engine issues, are you going to do a rebuild based solely on that piece of paper?

serious question btw. Always curious because this is kind of like the guys who do a compression test but have zero issues at all, and then start asking what to do because the number on the paper isn't what they thought it should be
Blackstone will tell you their recommendations for how to deal with the results and what they mean.

But no, I wouldn't immediately rebuild an engine just from a Blackstone test giving undesirable results... But Blackstone wouldn't tell you to rebuild it, they will say monitor it and don't be surprised if it has a bearing failure. I would not dump money and time into a car that has excess bearing material in the oil even if it's running fine in the short term.

I trust Blackstone.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 07-20-2021 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 07-20-2021, 04:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
are you going to do a rebuild based solely on that piece of paper?
Not likely, but it might make some rethink upcoming plans. Maybe set some money aside to plan for what may be coming.

I've had a UOA save us from catastrophic failure two times. Although, often times shop mules spend more time on the dyno than the street, so we're not exactly the norm. I have them done on every shop car and all my personal cars (wife too).

The other side is that some just like treating their car as good as they can. There are certainly worse habits than spending money on motor oil to have improved viscosity at the OCI or finding an oil that reduces wear metal trends. If spending $35 give some peace of mind and a better night sleep, it's a pretty small price to pay.
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Old 07-20-2021, 04:57 PM   #21
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Daily driven street car? Follow the manual and don't lose sleep over it.
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:24 AM   #22
rtv900
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Not likely, but it might make some rethink upcoming plans. Maybe set some money aside to plan for what may be coming.

I've had a UOA save us from catastrophic failure two times. Although, often times shop mules spend more time on the dyno than the street, so we're not exactly the norm. I have them done on every shop car and all my personal cars (wife too).

The other side is that some just like treating their car as good as they can. There are certainly worse habits than spending money on motor oil to have improved viscosity at the OCI or finding an oil that reduces wear metal trends. If spending $35 give some peace of mind and a better night sleep, it's a pretty small price to pay.

I could totally see doing this for a situation like a truck fleet or something where the vehicles see 50-100k miles per year, and maybe you have 20 or 30 vehicles and they are big diesels that take 20 or 30 quarts of oil each.
Then sure, you'd obviously want to push OCI as long as possible because that total cost would be significant when you are talking about hundreds of gallons of oil per year, plus an employee who has to do the work.

For a street car, not even close. You do the change at a totally safe point. I'm not going to analyze oil so I can get another 1000 miles out of an oil change and potentially save $12 at the end of the year on my 4.5 quart oil change.

But, obviously some people just want to see that piece of paper.
not me though
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Old 07-21-2021, 01:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
I'm not going to analyze oil so I can get another 1000 miles out of an oil change and potentially save $12 at the end of the year on my 4.5 quart oil change.
I didn't think so either, until my wife's 2014 FXT.

It was pro-tuned and stage 2 nearly from day-1. At the time there wasn't a lot out there with the FA20 DIT and LSPI, so for the first year-ish we tried a few brands just to see what would do what. Nothing exciting by any means, but really, without historical data, we didn't know if what we were seeing was good or bad. At the time there really weren't any tuned FA20 WRXs yet, so being out front in that regards was the most exciting part.

After seeing an Amsoil tech article on upcoming LSPI specific products, I reached out to them, and Driven (Joe Gibbs). At the time Driven was pretty much all we used in big power built EJs, and it worked well. Joe Gibbs was also developing an LSPI specific product as well. We ended up getting cases from each of them for evaluation.

Low and behold solids dropped, and after-use viscosity increased significantly. So much so that it was recommended we push out another 1K miles. So we went to 4K miles, still good. 5K miles, still good. 6, 7, 8... to 11k miles before the feedback got bad. By bad I mean solids went up and viscosity dropped. Utterly shocked! Both Joe Gibbs and Amsoil performed similarly. Amsoil was a wee bit better, but also more cost effective.

Now maybe it's a fluke? Or, maybe it could have happened with Walmart's cheapo brand oil? Maybe we got a Wednesday engine? Maybe my wife drives in some magical way that is easy on engine oil Whatever the case may be, the car ended up with 160K miles in 5 years and more than 20 oil analysis from break-in to the day it left our service. Even if all that data was anecdotal, it meant fewer oil changes for me, and less $ spent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
But, obviously some people just want to see that piece of paper.
not me though
I always did them because I'm a data nerd, and would have agreed with you if it hadn't saved us from two unexpected engine failures. Potentially saving us thousands of dollars. Although, our situation; use-and-abuse, and data collection is somewhat unique.
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