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Old 10-30-2019, 11:48 AM   #4251
quentinberg007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I hooned around on empty, packed snow-and-ice roads a bit this morning, getting slightly sideways. This and some braking tests made me realize why I don't like the Hankook winter tires on the Tesla (Winter i'Cept Evo 2, I think).

Their longitudinal grip is good. No issues with getting started and braking especially is solid.

But their lateral and especially rotational grip is not good. Way more sideways and yaw motion than I'd expect given the braking performance.

Next set (likely in a different size on a different vehicle entirely) will be Nokian Hakka R-whatever-they're-up-to-now for sure.


Try lowering the pressure a bit.
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Old 10-30-2019, 12:06 PM   #4252
shikataganai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Try lowering the pressure a bit.
Yeah, this is definitely a part of the issue. If only I could lower the Tesla TPMS squawking threshold... Right now I have them about as low as they can go without triggering the warnings, at 39 psi @ 10 F. (Tesla claims they want 44 all around!)
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:32 PM   #4253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I hooned around on empty, packed snow-and-ice roads a bit this morning, getting slightly sideways. This and some braking tests made me realize why I don't like the Hankook winter tires on the Tesla (Winter i'Cept Evo 2, I think).

Their longitudinal grip is good. No issues with getting started and braking especially is solid.

But their lateral and especially rotational grip is not good. Way more sideways and yaw motion than I'd expect given the braking performance.

Next set (likely in a different size on a different vehicle entirely) will be Nokian Hakka R-whatever-they're-up-to-now for sure.
Agree 100% with this observation.

Hankook winter tires have good grip accelerating and braking, but add in some yaw and their performance drops off quickly. Braking around a corner will lead to some raised eyebrows (at the very least).

Hakka R2/3 will offer more grip when the steering wheel is turned, and break away with more predictability.

FWIW I was pretty impressed with the Goodyear Ultragrips I had on my C63. They performed very nicely, and handled wet slush very well.
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:57 PM   #4254
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Can't wait to see how my Vredesteins do with da hooning.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:02 PM   #4255
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I switched from Michelin X-Ice 3s to Hakkapellita R3s for ice racing. Night and day difference.

Nokians must be witchcraft.
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:01 PM   #4256
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The Hakka 8ís on wifevan are really good.
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:11 PM   #4257
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Originally Posted by banman View Post
I switched from Michelin X-Ice 3s to Hakkapellita R3s for ice racing. Night and day difference.

Nokians must be witchcraft.

Hakkapeliitta isnít easy to spell. One L. Two Is. two Ts.
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:38 PM   #4258
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I switched from Michelin X-Ice 3s to Hakkapellita R3s for ice racing. Night and day difference.

Nokians must be witchcraft.
QFT.

If you can deal with studded tires, their Hakka 7/8/9/whatever version they are on now ROCK!

Back in the day the Subaru was rocking Hakka 4 studded tires and they were amazing. The difference between them and the X-Ice2s that I went to was the same difference as an all-season vs. a winter tire.

If it wasn't against condo regulations to have studded tires in the garage I would have kept them.
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Old 10-30-2019, 04:08 PM   #4259
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Hakkapeliitta isnít easy to spell. One L. Two Is. two Ts.
That is 100% autocorrect's fault.
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Old 10-31-2019, 11:40 PM   #4260
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Old 11-01-2019, 12:10 AM   #4261
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Model Y on the road in CA next to a 3. I canít see how any reasonably sized person will be able to sit in that third row.

I will make sure to have a picture taken of me in that row when they make it to my local Tesla store.
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Old 11-01-2019, 12:33 AM   #4262
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Full truck pass-through? Why?
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:56 AM   #4263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post


Model Y on the road in CA next to a 3. I canít see how any reasonably sized person will be able to sit in that third row.

I will make sure to have a picture taken of me in that row when they make it to my local Tesla store.
If a Model X barely accommodates an adult in the 3rd row why would anyone think this would?

Probably smaller than the 3rd row the RAV4 had for a few years.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:03 AM   #4264
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and people will still buy ****loads
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:20 AM   #4265
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Isnít there some rear passenger crash testing protocol coming out soon? That will be interesting to see for these fastback vehicles.
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:13 AM   #4266
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Full truck pass-through? Why?
When you need to replace your own power/telephone pole on your property?
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:55 AM   #4267
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Full truck pass-through? Why?
Jousting!
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:50 PM   #4268
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Honestly thatís pretty frickin sweet if you are gonna do real truck things with it.
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:58 PM   #4269
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:13 PM   #4270
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
My initial search didn't reveal a stock XJ RTI and somehow people don't post photos of that.

After re-reading my very own 2012 post (I'm nothing if not internally consistent!) I found the right search terms to get such a thing.

My old post, noting that this is from about 2 years before I bought a 100 series Land Cruiser, RTI 573 per fourwheeler.com: [Google+ URL elided]

Passing mention of a stock RTI of 490 for an XJ on presumably that very same ramp: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/su...-budget-build/
It has been a few years, so what better time to update my little list of Ramp Travel Indices of stock vehicles via Edmunds' reporting?! (I can't head out to get Thai until about an hour from now due to work constraints.)

647 - 2010 Toyota Land Cruiser with KDSS
561 - 2012 Jeep Wrangler Sport 2-door, stock with front swaybar attached
538 - 2011 Lexus GX 460 with KDSS
518 - 2014 Ram Power Wagon with front swaybar disconnected (412 with it connected)
484 - 2014 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro
477 - 2016 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road
423 - 2014 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel (crew cab, short bed, 140.7" wheelbase)
420 - 2015 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 4x4 (crew cab, 5.5' bed, 145" wheelbase)
334 - 2014 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring AWD
330 - 2014 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk
322 - 2012 BMW X3
318 - 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8
300 - 2013 Land Rover Range Rover Evoque 2 door
296 - 2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited
249 - 2014 Acura MDX
000 - 2015 Chevrolet Colorado Z71, as its not-easily-detached front valence fouled on the ramp and it couldn't get up it at all!

(The referenced-in-my-2018-quote 2012 post was by me on Google+, which is now kaput.)
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:34 PM   #4271
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Curious what my ZR2 can do, and came across this:
Quote:
Gladiator Rubicon: 623
TRD Pro: 492
Colorado ZR2: 489
TRD Off-Road: 468
Colorado Z71: 410
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:40 PM   #4272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
FUNCTIONALITY - Bollinger Motors - YouTube

Note them driving the saw from the vehicle's pack.
only $125k? sign me up.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:41 PM   #4273
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Those from 4 Wheel and Offroad? They and Edmunds are the only ones who publish RTI figures even semi-regularly, it seems. I stuck with Edmunds in the above list this time since they test more "normal" vehicles.

To me it seems there are 3 categories, more or less:

Street vehicles. These have IRS, have their vulnerable exhausts routed below the center crossmember (or whatever the technical term is), and have RTIs of 334 and lower.

Self-respecting competent off-road vehicles not designed specifically for this test. These have a solid rear axle and thus tucked away exhausts and end up with RTIs from 350-450.

Flexy flyers, ones where the designers explicitly made flex a priority. See disconnecting swaybars, off-road packages, KDSS here. 450+ RTI, noting the 200 series Land Cruiser to be the champion of Edmunds' data, for what little that's worth in reality.

In reality tire choice and traction control calibration most likely are the determining factors in 99% of scenarios, but it's still a fun topic to think about if you're me.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:20 PM   #4274
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I'm not too sure, someone on a forum grabbed the info from a TFL blog/video or something where they tested those models.

One surprising thing with my truck is there didn't seem to be any consideration for the massive exhaust tip hanging out the back waiting to be crunched. Damn thing is probably 4" diameter and isn't tucked at all. Only one company makes a DPF-back system that tucks the tip up near the bumper, and they want nearly $500 for it.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:23 PM   #4275
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That's because showing off your truck-anus is more important than off-road performance, of course.

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