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Old 12-27-2011, 04:59 PM   #1
Trance|Ghost
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Default Transmission rattle (de accelerating)

I know this topic has been covered numerous times, but I think my issue is a tad different.

First off, the car is a 2004 wrx wagon, basic mods (stage 2) factory oem clutch/flywheel (about 105,000 miles)

about a months ago I decided to finally get the bearings in my centre diff done (the car hummed and made some noises) so, brought the car in.. job was completed... no more humming/whining. HOWEVER... the first day I got the car back, every time I would be off the throttle and in gear I would hear a marble/rattling sound, louder in third.. but pretty much in every gear, can even hear it coming right from the shifter.

SO, car went back to the same shop who did the work (hes a Subaru specialist) he ended up ripping the centre diff apart again, replacing the viscous coupler, transfer gear, and centre diff casing. Noise was still there but much quieter.... However over time the sound has came back... took the car for a long drive the other day and noticed after a while .... slowing down in gear off the throttle its rattling again, in every gear... you can hear it from under the car outside even...

so now I'm told its the transmission and to replace the whole thing but I'm being reluctant, as it does it in every gear... the tranny shifts perfectly still too... I'm a bit annoyed as I spent some coin to replace the centre diff and now I'm told the tranny is junk... argh

any ideas??? its a rattle noise that is consistent with rpm... most noticeable at 2500-3000 rpm... and can be heard from outside... I will be posting a video soon.
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Last edited by Trance|Ghost; 12-30-2011 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:16 PM   #2
JASWRX
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Are you positive you have the original OEM clutch and flywheel that came with your car. Not OE replacement?
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:58 PM   #3
Trance|Ghost
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actually no I'm not, I'm the second owner of the car.

I did keep in contact with original owner, car was dealer maintained, and according to her the clutch was never replaced from what she remembers.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:44 PM   #4
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update, so I put the car on my hoist today... checking if I could spot anything loose, everything seems good, however.. the driver side front axle had alot of play in it, I could grab the shaft part of the axle and wiggle it up and down and from side to side, it would click as well... and it seemed like it was moving from the boot, if I grabbed the stub part that goes into the diff it didn't move as much... I think I may have a bad cv.. don't know if that would cause the noise tho.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:08 PM   #5
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i have the same problem like rattling when you let off the gas.
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:54 AM   #6
DJ321
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a little play is normal in the front axles's. That is not your prob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trance|Ghost View Post
update, so I put the car on my hoist today... checking if I could spot anything loose, everything seems good, however.. the driver side front axle had alot of play in it, I could grab the shaft part of the axle and wiggle it up and down and from side to side, it would click as well... and it seemed like it was moving from the boot, if I grabbed the stub part that goes into the diff it didn't move as much... I think I may have a bad cv.. don't know if that would cause the noise tho.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:52 PM   #7
Trance|Ghost
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if this is the "deaccelerating rattle" and consider normal, then I'll be put to ease... I really don't want to fund spending into a whole new/used transmission.. espiecally after the money I just spent into the current transmission.

I just can't imagine it being that loud... should the rattle be able to be heard from outside??? like I said its in every gear and off the throttle.. its consistent too... tick tick tick. the higher the rpms the faster the tick, gradually slows down as rpms come down as well. as soon as the clutch is down or put in neutral its gone

Last edited by Trance|Ghost; 12-30-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:03 PM   #8
edberg
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Check if your exhaust is hitting your driveshaft carrier, I ended up removing the j-hook that attaches the exhaust to the transmission.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:45 PM   #9
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I'll check tommorow. not really sure if it would be the exhaust... the dp is bolted right near the tranny cross member...
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:29 PM   #10
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Does it make the same noise decelerating if you push the clutch in?
If it does, it's not the clutch/flywheel.
Might be a loosening manifold heatshield, exhaust / driveshaft tunnel heat shield interference (rubbing).
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:34 PM   #11
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negative.. as soon as you push the clutch in, it goes silent.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:39 PM   #12
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I have the same issue. I "think" it was there a little bit before but hardly noticable, but I just had the clutch done a 3 months ago and now it is quite loud. (clutch is exedy OE)
The tech I had the car at was a general mechanic and this was his first subaru which concerns me a little.

Right now at startup, for about 10 seconds I hear a whine with the car not in gear and clutch out and it goes away completely after that time. If I push in the clutch the sound stops.
When driving I can hear a bit of extra driveline noise at about 50-60km/hr, although it is very subtle.

The real thing I am chasing is off throttle sound you are describing although I would say the sound I have is more like a wheel bearing on the way out type of sound (more grinding than rattling). I have it when I let of the gas and the car is engine braking with a reasonable amount of load, but stops when the clutch is in. The sound is loudest when decel from 85km/hr through 60km/hr.

I assume (please let me know if I am wrong) that if is was a bearing it would still make the sound with the clutch in. So am thinking of doing the centre diff bearings and picking up a used transfer case or centre diff to give a try.

I would be interested to hear if anyone thinks this is either clutch spring rattle or throwout bearing related.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:57 PM   #13
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funny you mention the whine..

when I start my car (espiecally in the colder weather) I hear a whine/moaning sound with the clutch up in neatrul for about a min or two.. its never done that before..

the only work I had done was center diff bearings replaced, transfer gear, viscous coupler, and the tailstock piece.

this sound started right after that stuff was replaced... but my clutch wasn't touched.

Last edited by Trance|Ghost; 12-30-2011 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:54 PM   #14
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I'll take some video, post it tonight. Keep in mind I have the subframe lock kit, poly diff carrier bushings and poly outrigger bushings (pretty much the whole clunk killing kit that numerous companies sell) With all that locked in I know I can expect a lot more NVH than most people. Oh, and I have group-N pitch stop and motor mounts.

After searching far and wide on Nasioc for this it looks like:

-Bad centre Diff, clip at bottom breaking and causing clunking and various grinding noises
-Bad bearings in transfer case (primarily the transfer gear bearing)
-Driveshaft/driveshaft carrier
-throwout bearing poorly installed or re-used with new clutch install.
-springs in clutch rattling

It seems odd to me that it would only be under load on decel in regards to a bearing, which really makes me wonder if it is centre diff or clutch related. I would also be surprised to get that much noise from the clutch springs or throwout.
I plan on stopping by the shop that did the clutch to get their opinion, as well as another mechanic I know before I pay anyone to go down a path.

I am fairly certain I can get my hands on a transfer case whole so I might try that if I don't have a clear idea of where to go.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:31 PM   #15
Trance|Ghost
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well, as far as MY04 wrx, it has brand new center diff bearings... thats when the rattle all began.... car went back and he replaced the viscous coupler/transfer gear/diff case... and it was still present.

I'm told the transmission is messed now, might be.. but I'm being stubborn to believe it... only because I dumped mula into the center diff of a bad tranny.

maybe the c-clip that holds viscous fell off?
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:16 AM   #16
JASWRX
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I am willing to bet you have an OE replacement disk, NOT OEM. The springs are not the same design and cause a really annoying grinding, rattling noise when you let off the gas. If you give it the slightest bit of gas, it does go away, or put in neutral.

This only seems to happen on the 5spds. They are very sensitive to non OEM clutches, which will generate noise. Nothing to worry about though...
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:27 PM   #17
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Startup noise, goes away after the car warms up (15-30sec) But you can clearly hear it here and goes away when clutch is pressed.

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Old 01-01-2012, 07:16 PM   #18
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I have that same damn noise.... I'm guessing its the cold weather, I never had any work done to my clutch however... wierd
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:42 AM   #19
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On my car, a few different shops and many hundreds of dollars later...

My bosal downpipe and the bracket which attaches to the trans, is touching the trans crossmember due to the alignment of the rest of the exhaust system. At cold it's the worst, when warm, not a problem.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:30 PM   #20
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And here is the sound at decel, you can hear it stop when the clutch goes in near the end, then starts up when the clutch comes out again.

http://youtu.be/v-5f-fVRURo?hd=1
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:25 AM   #21
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Hey buster, that sound is actually a bit different then mine.. thats more of a growling grinding sound... hard to explain

mine is an actually tick/grinding sound.. its similar but not the same.. I need to post a video asap... my damn blackberry doesn't pick up any sounds.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:04 PM   #22
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Mine had a weird rattling too when I was decelerating. The sound was coming from right behind the passenger seat. I finally tracked it down to the outrigger. The bushing is so soft that the bracket that was holding it up was hitting against the outrigger. Installed the comfort kartboy bushings(thick top/thick narrow one bottom) and its 98 percent gone. I can tell its hitting it but not so loose anymore.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:08 PM   #23
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Trance/Ghost, if I am correct in assuming that Buster's video was shot with the car stationary and out of gear and your noise matches his your troubles are NOT in the center diff. The center diff and related bearings CANNOT rotate while the car is still; if they are turning the car is rolling.
If this sound is coming after cold start I recommend you prepare for a tranny teardown before it gets too late. These trannies do a horrible job of lubing the primary bearing on the input shaft when the gears are not meshed and slinging the gear lube around.
When out of gear and stationary the only thing moving much lube is the reverse gear. Those of us who allow our cold Subarus to warm up before driving them are at greatest risk of losing the tranny because of this. (experience)
Based on my experience, I suspect that the bering in Buster's car is on the way out and that yours has already failed. The 'marble-like' rattling sound in mine really was marbles - seven of the 14 balls in the bearing grinding each other to bits. Performance never suffered a bit but if you saw the bearing you'd wonder how it moved.
The fact that the sounds cease after the clutch is depressed is a huge clue. When decelerating the shafts take a side load opposite that which is expressed under acceleration.
Drain your trannies and check the plug. Mine had very little debris there but there was some. Examine any debris for traces of chrome. If you find ANY bright and shiny, you're at risk of ruining the whole tranny. (as did I) Most of the debris was NOT near the drain plug. When that bearing fails the trash falls into the front section of the transfer case extension. Most is trapped there while the small stuff makes its way along the bearings on the pinion shaft.
If you two are sure the sounds are not body rattle or mufflers or are otherwise convinced the sound is in the tranny, it's time for them to be opened.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:46 PM   #24
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I finally made a video of my crappy transmission rattle... this is only during deaccel and you can hear it for a bit when I open the door from the outside.. as soon as im on throttle or clutch is pushed down it goes away.. pisses me off

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Old 01-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #25
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That sounded close to what mine was. Spend the 30 bucks for outrigger spacers. Its worth a shot.
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