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Old 09-25-2020, 10:37 AM   #14026
the_saintusa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
One of my favorite writers has a quote that fits him perfectly (not originally about him, but still...):
The actual facts of the matter are irrelevant, or nearly so.
Perception is reality unfortunately.
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:43 AM   #14027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
You could really benefit from a basic discreet math course. It would help you identify the logical errors you routinely make time and time again while arguing the effects from incomplete data.
Or "Argumentation and Persuasion."
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:06 AM   #14028
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Originally Posted by chapstien View Post
Or "Argumentation and Persuasion."
Start with the conclusion, then work backwards to find evidence or interpret studies to support your conclusion!

The Science of Limo Drivers
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:23 AM   #14029
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Easy to do when you can seek out any obscure "source" that aligns with your pre-established viewpoint these days. Just go to www.imright.com and what do you know, the MSM has been lying to us all along! These bloggers know THE TRUTH!!!
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:26 AM   #14030
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Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Easy to do when you can seek out any obscure "source" that aligns with your pre-established viewpoint these days. Just go to www.imright.com and what do you know, the MSM has been lying to us all along! These bloggers know THE TRUTH!!!
Even MSM articles can support wild claims, if you only read the headlines.
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:30 AM   #14031
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Yup; and you counter perhaps the most experienced infectious disease microbiologist(s) in the country with an assistant professor from McGill and radiologist(!!) from Standford, and now "There's even disagreement among the experts!"

I mean sure, it's technically true, just also incredibly misleading, since some people's experts actually aren't, or are WAY out of their depth of field.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:06 PM   #14032
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Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
Yup; and you counter perhaps the most experienced infectious disease microbiologist(s) in the country with an assistant professor from McGill and radiologist(!!) from Standford, and now "There's even disagreement among the experts!"

I mean sure, it's technically true, just also incredibly misleading, since some people's experts actually aren't, or are WAY out of their depth of field.
Then that means they are not experts snd you’re watching curated propaganda.
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:27 PM   #14033
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You know, even at 99.99% rates of COVID being survivable (let us simply ignore any other health impact and just say death is what we care about) you still have the problem that .01% multiplied by 340,000,000 ends up being a bigger number than people can really comprehend. I think that is part of what is wrong with the total being over 200,000 is that humans can't really grasp what that means. They can kinda get it if you say "ok, see this big stadium, it holds 50,000 people. Therefore it would be 4 of this stadium died." We just don't typically deal with large quantities like that and especially when you localize it as "well my state only lost X amount."

People want to compare it to other stuff like "well cars kill X. or choking kills Y." I think people want to minimize the threat because we have no cure and don't fully understand COVID so people will say it isn't so scary because they don't like having something so powerful they have no control over. Much like how voters last election picked the guy blatantly lying to them over the person telling them the truth, they don't like the truth and would rather hope that the slimmest of chances really exists that things will go well.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:01 PM   #14034
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Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
Yup; and you counter perhaps the most experienced infectious disease microbiologist(s) in the country with an assistant professor from McGill and radiologist(!!) from Standford, and now "There's even disagreement among the experts!"

I mean sure, it's technically true, just also incredibly misleading, since some people's experts actually aren't, or are WAY out of their depth of field.
What is Fauci's education/degree in? Birx?

Believe experts with the wrong credentials NO NOT THOSE EXPERTS WITH THE WRONG CREDENTIALS!|
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:02 PM   #14035
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Anyone who utters "herd immunity" has absolutely no concept of reality. That would kill millions. Maybe they just don't care. Or think they're not old/sick, they'll roll those dice no matter what the consequences for others. So yeah, they just don't care. Until it's too late.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:12 PM   #14036
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Originally Posted by sorbee711 View Post
You know, even at 99.99% rates of COVID being survivable (let us simply ignore any other health impact and just say death is what we care about) you still have the problem that .01% multiplied by 340,000,000 ends up being a bigger number than people can really comprehend. I think that is part of what is wrong with the total being over 200,000 is that humans can't really grasp what that means. They can kinda get it if you say "ok, see this big stadium, it holds 50,000 people. Therefore it would be 4 of this stadium died." We just don't typically deal with large quantities like that and especially when you localize it as "well my state only lost X amount."

People want to compare it to other stuff like "well cars kill X. or choking kills Y." I think people want to minimize the threat because we have no cure and don't fully understand COVID so people will say it isn't so scary because they don't like having something so powerful they have no control over. Much like how voters last election picked the guy blatantly lying to them over the person telling them the truth, they don't like the truth and would rather hope that the slimmest of chances really exists that things will go well.
3 million Americans die every year. Perspective is everything: that sounds horrifying, until you realize that death rate is in line with other developed countries, and lower than non-developed countries. Whew!

In the same vein, 200k sounds horrifying, until you give it perspective: medical malpractice kills far more than covid; so does heart disease, cancer, etc. It's not minimizing the threat, anymore than it is to understand that despite 40k people being killed in car crashes, or double that in some years by the flu, you're probably going to be just fine driving to work, or going to the concert in November.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:43 PM   #14037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_saintusa View Post
Many, (not all) believe that the masks do not help and that this is a conspiracy.

If they truly believe the above than are they being malicious?

How did they get to the belief system they adhere to?
Why do some people trust science? scientific method?
Why do some people choose to not believe science?
Why do some people feel their freedoms are being infringed on?
Why do some people put their 'rights' behind that of others?
Where do people get their 'science'?
Why do some people put their hands into a running snowblower chute? It's a mystery.
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Old 09-25-2020, 01:59 PM   #14038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
In the same vein, 200k sounds horrifying, until you give it perspective: medical malpractice kills far more than covid; so does heart disease, cancer, etc.
Well, we certainly aren't gonna give up fast food and become a country of non-fat lazy sacks of ... well... fat.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:04 PM   #14039
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Originally Posted by poison View Post
In the same vein, 200k sounds horrifying, until you give it perspective: medical malpractice kills far more than covid; so does heart disease, cancer, etc.
Those are yearly things. COVID ... is not.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:12 PM   #14040
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The only "casualty events" this nation has experienced that have killed more Americans than COVID now (200k) are:
WW2 (400k),
The Civil War (600k), and
1918 Flu (700k).
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:13 PM   #14041
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Originally Posted by Kinnikuman View Post
Those are yearly things. COVID ... is not.
Well, yeah. That's why 9/11 is a good comparison to combat that thinking. #neverforget 3,000 but 200,000 is hand waved away.

And after all, more people die in pool drownings each year than in decades of terrorist attacks, so who gives a ****, right? Wearing a mask is an assault on their freedom but going through airport security body scanners is fine.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:24 PM   #14042
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Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Well, yeah. That's why 9/11 is a good comparison to combat that thinking. #neverforget 3,000 but 200,000 is hand waved away.

And after all, more people die in pool drownings each year than in decades of terrorist attacks, so who gives a ****, right? Wearing a mask is an assault on their freedom but going through airport security body scanners is fine.
But this isn’t a terrorist attack, duh. It’s a Chinese made virus that was released to hurt Trump!













Oh ****.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:28 PM   #14043
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And latest for the, "Who could have possibly known???" files:

Parents Knowingly Sent Kids With Coronavirus to School, Wisconsin Officials Say

Quote:
The health department has worked with school districts since spring to make a plan to reopen," Kirsten Johnson, Washington-Ozaukee public health director, told NBC News. "Never in a million years did we imagine or think to account for parents deliberately sending their sick or symptomatic child to school... we never accounted for people completely disregarding basic health guidance
Damn those scientists for politicizing this.

Last edited by ForceFed4; 09-25-2020 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:41 PM   #14044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
And latest for the, "Who could have possibly known???" files:

Parents Knowingly Sent Kids With Coronavirus to School, Wisconsin Officials Say



Damn those scientists for politicizing this.
Another one? ****ing hell, there was one two weeks ago.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:52 PM   #14045
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Originally Posted by Kinnikuman View Post
Those are yearly things. COVID ... is not.
Making judgements based on incomplete info, are we?

You can't say that. This may end up being yearly.
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:54 PM   #14046
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Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
The only "casualty events" this nation has experienced that have killed more Americans than COVID now (200k) are:
WW2 (400k),
The Civil War (600k), and
1918 Flu (700k).
Casualty events? Why are you comparing wars to a virus? There are several causes which kill more people yearly, every year, are you trying to hand wave those away?
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Old 09-25-2020, 02:55 PM   #14047
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Another one? ****ing hell, there was one two weeks ago.
My county.

There was one on opening day, who they found because the kid had to go to the nurse shortly after school started because they were too sick to stay in class.

Then the story earlier this week, they said that hadn't been the only one, and they were looking at how to tie the positive tests into the attendance software so they can catch them first thing.
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Old 09-25-2020, 03:05 PM   #14048
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Originally Posted by poison View Post
Casualty events? Why are you comparing wars to a virus? There are several causes which kill more people yearly, every year, are you trying to hand wave those away?
Current projections (which look pretty realistic) put Covid deaths at 400,000 this year.

That would put it just a rung or two down from cancer and heart disease. The difference of course is that covid is contagious and we had a chance to stifle it and failed because too many people like you have their head in the sand.

And before you say I'm politicizing it, I hate the left just as much as I hate the right. Both sides can huff a dong and I hope everyone at Fox news and CNN experiences the worst of uneven tire tread wear.
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Old 09-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #14049
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Excess mortality. It's called that because it's in...wait for it...excess of baseline mortality from inevitable things like cancer and heart disease. So many new and exciting concepts that some people in OT should learn about!
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Old 09-25-2020, 03:26 PM   #14050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Well, yeah. That's why 9/11 is a good comparison to combat that thinking. #neverforget 3,000 but 200,000 is hand waved away.

And after all, more people die in pool drownings each year than in decades of terrorist attacks, so who gives a ****, right? Wearing a mask is an assault on their freedom but going through airport security body scanners is fine.
More people are crushed by vending machines annually than are killed in shark attacks.

I'm still waiting for Spielberg to make that movie
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