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Old 01-05-2009, 03:37 PM   #51
MotorTrend
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We appreciate the feedback and responses. To address some issues:

This was a tight field with some fierce competition. You’d be hard-pressed to make a “bad” choice with the majority of these cars, as illustrated in the story. It may be easy to look just at the hard data and make your own conclusions, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. You can’t put a quantifiable number on refinement or fun factor, etc. This is why we use words and have a final order.

As for the VW ads; ad agency’s pay to have specific ads placed on articles that reference specific cars, as is the case with print. Did Subaru pay to put ads around the page that declares the Forester the Sport/Utility of the Year? Yes. Was Subaru present with a Forester loaded with sacks of $100 bills when we decided it was the winner? No. It would be nice to be bought out; we wouldn't have to test at all. We could just run press releases all day and pull winners out of thin air. Not to mention, monthly rent would a lot easier to make. Sadly, we aren’t; ethics and all that. This is why we test and this is why we compare. No talk of advertising was made when we decided final list.

Fact of the matter is everyone has a favorite, evident by the Cobalt fans on our site, the Mitsu fans on EvoM, the MS3 fans on their forums, and you guys here. While we sure can't please everyone, we here to bring you the best news we can. Again, thanks for reading and for your responses.
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:40 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugenXP View Post
its funny how they knocked on the wrx for its looks, but didnt really say anything about the ugly SS.


looks to me like they favored looks over performance, nothing wrong with that, but wasn't this suppose to be a performance test?
but either way i'll accept their test-standards.
All the cars in the test outside of the Ralliart could be considered ugly or bland. I'm okay with the GTI getting first as it is the most sophisticated car of the group and probably the best overall car for a daily driver.
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:43 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMG.STi View Post
........ Some people dont care if their car if the fastest, they want the entire package.
Then they should def get a subaru

Exterior = unique sex
Interior = sexy
Power = plenty
Engine life = amazing [we all know these things go forever]
Suspension = to soft? yet does 2nd best hmm...

Since when do people complain about a suspension being to soft? Specialy the "Targeted Market" supposely that isn't looking for a sports car? I cant think of anyone in my family or relatives (older crowd), that would dislike the suspension. Im sure they all want a comfortable ride, not something stiff.

Subaru #4, i think they should push it up a little to maybe #2 ;o
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:46 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
All the cars in the test outside of the Ralliart could be considered ugly or bland. I'm okay with the GTI getting first as it is the most sophisticated car of the group and probably the best overall car for a daily driver.
Im not ok with GTI getting first at all. VW's electrical sys sucks so bad. I know a few VW owners, from jetta's, to golfs, diesel to gas, and that **** breaks down all the time.

Sensor go, power windows stop working, wipers ****ed up after two years, major engine problems, i could go on and on...

I guess it could be in #1 position if you replace it after 2-3 years ;/ VW
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:52 PM   #55
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I would take the mazdaspeed 3 over the GTI anyday
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:00 PM   #56
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The only opinion I care about is my own....

OP I would like to know how may people voted/tested these cars? Their ages, and what kind of cars they drive? That would say more about why they picked the cars they did over what the data says.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:08 PM   #57
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How does a car that didnt WIN any of the competitions get 1st? , its almost the same thing that happened to Tim Tebow this year at the Heiman banquet, he had more 1st place votes than ALL of the competitors i was pissed and i dont even like him or the Gators.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:55 PM   #58
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Magazines look at the past AND present of cars. Compared to the past years, the WRX is lacking looks and feeling. Took a test drive in an 09 last week and was not as impressed as when I took my 07 out for the first time.

Sat in a Ralliart the same day and was more impressed by the seats than ANYTHING else. Sat in a GTI and was more impressed by the Speed3. The Cobalt... Well... give it 2 years like someone said before IF GM is still around. Everyone has to start somewhere... Look where Subaru started back in the day....
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:42 PM   #59
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wow i knew the 09 rex had quite a bit more power than before but had no clue it was wraping up a 1/4 in 13.5??? thats pretty awesome.
i have an 05 stage 2 wrx and i raced my buddy in his 08 cobalt ss/tc. i raced him from a launch 6 times and beat him every time and from a 50mph roll and he pulled away, but very very slowly. although it feels pretty quick i would much rather drive my wrx and with the awd??? haha the cobalts dont stand a chance from a dig
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:13 PM   #60
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I just bought an 09 WRX mainly for the power but also because it's the first Impreza design I've liked (hatch only, sedan rear looks like butt) and AWD. I spent my first 10 years driving FWD cars and just got sick of it.

Pulling out onto a fast, busy street? Forget about flooring it in first.

Trying to accelerate quickly from a stop on even a slightly slippery road? Forget it, CRV next you will easily get ahead and cut you off.

Want to go anywhere on a snowy day? That'll be 400$ for snow tires please.

I've never been a track person, so the suspension and brakes don't matter. Well, the suspension does but coming from an 04 TSX, I thought the WRX I test drove exhibited very little body roll

As for the others, the only one I liked, style-wise, was the Ralliart but it cost more and was slower, PLUS auto-only = a big no thx.

The Cobalt looks like a rental car and the VW is a VW. Over-priced and a maintenance nightmare. That's my take on it anyway.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:54 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy P View Post
How does a car that didnt WIN any of the competitions get 1st? , i

+ a cohillion.

I had a mk5 GTI. It was ok, an upgrade from the jetta i traded for it. Very nice interior, good ride, good factory sound system. Torque steer FTL, soft suspension FTL, and the traction control was crap. It wasnt even traction control. it was a device that retarded the timing to the point where the car would literally bog all the way down. yes you could temporarily turn it off, but you wouldnt always remember to since it reactivated with every start up.

I traded it for an 05 STI 6 months later. Best decision i ever made.

MS3>WRX>Lancer>GTI>Honda>clubman s>domestic junk>domestic junk
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:22 PM   #62
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WTF, how does a chevy cobalt beat the wrx.....hmmmm hint hint....someone wants to give american cars a bump
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:23 PM   #63
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I think the review was fairly spot on, i work for a GM dealership an drove the 09 SS a couple of times. I can tell you that car is plenty quick with very good torque + brembo brakes and the very good suspension, it is a winner though the interior just plain sucksand i will admit to that. Frankly i was a mitsu owner a couple of months back and can tell you the ralliart is very overpriced and lacks the power of any of the turbo competitors + auto-tranny which in my experience on working with mitsus, their auto transmissions suck. The WRX really should have been third as it righted all the wrongs from the 08 models, and the awesome fact of the mighty boxer engine lol. I recently bought a 05 STI and really love it. But you have to give credit where it's due and GM deserves some for crafting a very good FWD car that competes with the best of them. Anyway that is my opinion.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewsthomas View Post
I'm sorry, but the Mazdaspeed 3 is still a Mazda 3, and the Cobalt SS is still a Cobalt. They are seriously 2 of the ugliest cars I have ever laid eyes on, and I wouldn't be caught driving either one. The GTI, WRX, and the Lancer might not have won enough of the performance aspects of this to "win" overall, but in the looks and fit and finish categories, they KILL the rest of the field.

You have got to be kidding right!

I have been a Subaru WRX owner since 2002 and a STi owner since 2004.

Saying the MS3 is a Mazda 3 is much like saying that your WRX is just a impreza. Not sure if you have been in a MS3 but the interior is far better than a 08 WRX and in my opinion the hatch WRX and MS3 look incredibly similar. Aside from the AWD which 98% of the population will never have a need for the MS3 is a better value, Bigger brakes, Direct injection, 6 Speed tranny, better Tires, HID headlights, Bose audio and $22,500. I bet if you were to put them in a lot and ask a average person which is which I doubt they would have a clue.

Now I do have to agree that the rear end of the Cobalt coupe could use a little help.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention I got the wife a MS3 last year, and i will probably never get rid of my STi.

[/quote]

100% aggree. if there was one thing also that i could change about my WRX its the fact that it has a T-belt. almost all the other cars if not all are a chain. and a chain is so much more reliable. and you never have to service it.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:42 PM   #65
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I own a 03 WRX, owned a '05 turbo Baja, (which I loved) but after looking at and test driving the '08 MS3 GT, I opted to trade the Baja in for the MS3. I love the MS3. Excellent touring car. I've driven to and on the Dragon, Blue Ridge Parkway, and Myrtle Beach.
It has a rattle iin the windshield area every once in a while, but that's my only complaint. I would have traded the Baja for a new STI, but the price differential was to great, and the 08 WRX was less in perforrmace for about the same cash.
My .02....FWIW.
.and I'll never sell my Sonic '03.


L J
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:30 PM   #66
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How did the MS3 get good ratings before against the WRX. I drove one and the torque steer was crazy. I don't know you could race in a straight line in that car. Still wondering how..
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:59 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorTrend View Post
its boxer four "idles lumpy" and proved noisier than expected.
It's a flat 4, it's supposed to sound like that. Personally, I like the extra noise compared to the quietness that was the '08. Subaru had to come up with SOME way to separate the GF chassis from the Corolla's and MS3's.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:21 PM   #68
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ya'know. these reviews are probably rigged, but even if they aren't, I can agree I guess..... until you add any power to any of them. Then you need awd or else the car is all over the place. Don't get me wrong. I have a focus svt and I love it, but it doesn't compare to my wrx. OH.. and that Mugen Civic should've come with a supercharger. That would have been BADA$$
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:26 PM   #69
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I can't believe my old GTI won out in this comparison. WOW!

I loved the GTI's gas mileage (I avg'd 27 mpg over a year of ownership), I hated the traction control's dangerous habit of cutting power when merging onto any roadway quickly or in the wet. I loved all of the standard features on the car, that I paid $25000 even for OTD. I hated spending my days off at the dealership when everything broke, fell off, rattled or buzzed, or quit working altogether. I loved driving the car on long road trips where I'd average 34mpg or at auto-x's where I'd average 26 mpg (not even joking). I hated the finicky trans when going slow up a decent hill or when creeping in traffic. I loved that damn steering wheel and tartan fabric. I hated the lack of limited slip where it failed miserably on an auto-x course. I loved the rally car feel of paddle shifting a backfire "blurp." I hated the horrible sound system that couldn't reproduce music very well but the fuel pump played a lovely tap dancing tune everytime I turned her over. I loved the awesome HID lights, never used the high beams in 1 year. I hated the car's over-consumption of synthetic oil (qt. every 2.5 weeks) that I was told was normal. I love that I don't own that GTI anymore. I hated that the damn thing left me stranded twice...

Trust me guys (M/T), that one night stand with your average performing GTI is better left a one night stand. That awesome daily driver will quickly become a weekly nightmare.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:12 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorTrend View Post
This was a tight field with some fierce competition. You'd be hard-pressed to make a "bad" choice with the majority of these cars, as illustrated in the story. It may be easy to look just at the hard data and make your own conclusions, but that doesn't tell the whole story. You can't put a quantifiable number on refinement or fun factor, etc. This is why we use words and have a final order.
Tell you what I think would be a good idea.

Put a lot of driving on each of these cars, come back in 12-18 months, and then re-rank them according to how well they are still performing, whether these cars are still in one piece, and whether you still find each of these cars performance and drivability appealing after months and miles.

I had an RS for almost 7 years, with 150K on the odometer, sold it to a friend, still running.
The wife had her Legacy for 6 years, with 105K, sold it to another friend, still running.
I have my Saabaru (Aero, Cobb stage 2) for 3.5 years and turned 90K last week.

Every single time I get into my car, turn it on, and pull out of the driveway I get excited about what I'm driving. Every time I got into past Subarus, I loved driving them, even the wagon.

I look forward to the unique sound, the lumpy idle, and the ability to have stable power delivered to all wheels, which has not gotten worse after almost 100K miles. Can't say that about the Saturns I owned (GM). They felt old after 40K. Only 1 lasted to 100K in the family, none over 4 years old.

My wallet loves the fact that I've spent $0 in major repairs to the car, just maintenance and wear parts. I'm still on my stock clutch after 90K (40 of that stage 2). My drain plug came out of the oil pan at 21K miles due to a bonehead at the dealer, no oil in the car for almost a mile, and I've put another 70K miles on since with NO problems. I can't say anything close to that about the Jettas I owned, where one was a lemon (electrical), the other fell apart after 18K miles. Brand new 2001 models, right off the lot.

My kidneys love the fact that I have a slightly softer suspension on the crappy NJ roads I drive on. Yet I still have plenty of fun on the backroads without fear of going out of control. I would have no qualms about tracking the car as is, and then driving it home, and back to work on Monday.

I've ridden in a new GTI. Charming, but not something I think I'd want to put 25K miles on a year. Fun, yeah. Long term? No.

Coworker's daughter has a cobalt, <2 years old. Falling apart, inside rattling, and there's already tranny problems (auto tho). Not impressed by the SS dressing.

One buddy was a Dodge mechanic. He made most of his money off warranty work. Enough said.

Sure, the top couple cars in the test may be powerful, and fun for a test. However, I'd urge you to drive them long term, and see which ones really keep exciting you and still perform as well as they did when you first got them. You'll probably see a whole different ranking.

-Gary

Last edited by Prime Mover; 01-06-2009 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:35 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staples View Post
Cobalt . . . I hate that friggin car lol
+9

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Slo Sti View Post
since when are GM's so unreliable?

my family and I have owned many...

they were great cars/trucks
my dad went through 4 transmissions and a motor in his chevy 2500,it was well taken care of too.After that he got an f-350. Never changed one liquid (except oil ofcoarse) and ran for 6 years without a problem !until he sold it earlier this year. Yes, GM is very unreliable!At least its it has in my case!
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:41 AM   #72
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If you don't like a loud exhaust and a "lumpy idle" then do me a favor and test the 2.5i. Clearly the WRX is not for you.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:48 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenbullet View Post
This comparison doesn't take into account that a VW/Chevy/Mitsubishi will have MAJOR electrical/mechanical issues to deal with as soon as it hits 60K miles (especially the VW).

Flog a Subaru for 100k and see how reliable it is versus the competition and there's no comparison. Yeah, I'm bias but only because I know VW/Chevy/Mistu owners.

Tell that to 07 STI owners having motor problems at 10k!
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:24 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by jonfrow View Post
ya'know. these reviews are probably rigged, but even if they aren't, I can agree I guess..... until you add any power to any of them. Then you need awd or else the car is all over the place. Don't get me wrong. I have a focus svt and I love it, but it doesn't compare to my wrx. OH.. and that Mugen Civic should've come with a supercharger. That would have been BADA$$
I agree





and the trade in day


I had a 2008 civic mugen Si, supercharged with bolt-ons (i/h/e) and it did put down decent numbers for what it is, it was faster than a slightly modded '08 WRX, but i still opted out for the STi because:

1/ fwd is not the way to go, especially if you have plans for big power down the road, i know it can be done, but it's not the best way IMO

2/ I couldn't pass the deal on an '08 STi, so i jumped on it, I've always wanted an STi, and the time just came

however, there are a couple of things i'm gonna hand to the Mugen Si compared to a stock STi:

1/ the Mugen handles way better than a stock STi, and believe me, unless you test a mugen (no it's not a regular Si), you won't have a clue what i'm talking about

2/ I can beat the living crap out of the k20, and the only thing i worry about is my clutch, which started slipping in no time after the mods, but i didn't have the fear of blowing the engine up, or anything like that

having said all that, I do not regret my decision, not one bit, I took care of the suspension as soon as I got the car, and I'm gonna get a built motor down the road, before i get a bigger turbo kit, get a good tune, and hope for the best
---------------------

regarding the results, I don't really trust any reviews these days anyways, but the WRX coming 4th is a tough one

-AJ
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Old 01-06-2009, 04:15 AM   #75
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why bother with those toilet rags just be satisfied with top gear and as for the elise well........a damn apache couldnt catch it....need i say more ?
Ewww virgin wagons if they made an awd diesel id be all over it (testing of cours) then we get to the cobalt..........F#@% front wheel drive its more dangerus than rear wheel drive if you ask me.
what the hype rags dont test is real world road hazards similar to something walking out in front or hydroplaning or an ice patch. i bet you everytime the front wheelers will almost always loose. simply put, as soon as you turn the wheel your still going straight. With all that weight and power and braking force it is killing the traction of those wheels that you NEED to controll the vehicle. atlease with the rwd cars all you have to worry about is stopping and thats not being hindered by the engine, still coming down from the revs.
(the average driver isnt going to remember to hit the clutch at the same time)
With a half way skilled driver you can atleast toss a rwd car into a controlled drift (yeah i know contradictory) Now the benefit and the down side of awd has all the good and bad of the above but Subaru has taken awd to the best of its ability. Subaru has made it as light and strong as possable.
Ive put my 98 impreza L (so damn stock its sad still has drum rears with the original old brakes on it) through its paces. i've been over a median strip 5 inches high and 2 feet across, i've tried to jump it over a 3 foot dirt hill and got stuck (literaly teatering on it) i've locked up the brakes 4 times. i still repeatedly do 0-speed limit very much foot to the floor. i've done multiple nuetral dumps in it with the tranny low and the engine over filled. I've never changed the front diff fluid only changed the rear fluid once. it was in one side impact 60mph impact against a newer much larger ford suv.(driver door panel and front fender only needed to be pulled and painted) it makes an hour long trip 54 miles twice a day still ever since i got it in 03-04. it is now 10-11 years old and has 180k miles on it the only major problem i ever had with it is one ignigtion coil pack one maf meter 3 timing belts (because i buggered the first 2) and 2 valves. now lets see a chevy or a virgin wagon or a mazda do that and live just as long afterwards without anything else gone wrong. (i bet you I hit 250k before i get fed up with it)
Now look at that i got side tracked from the handling bit i was trying to do. well i forgot to mention subaru's awd system is the only one ( versus jeep honda volvo toyota and i few others i cant think of ) that can move with only one tire gripping. as for the engine feeling lumpy. **** you didnt give the engine mounts time to wear in i dont feel any lumpyness in mine except for that time the coil pack failed on number 4 boy did i notice then. oh god now you got me started on lumpy running engines every straight 4 i've been in (saturn kia hundia chevy chrysler honda) they all feel like they have a damn lawn mower in there. now.........what was i gonna say.............

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