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04-10-2021, 05:29 PM | #1 | |
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2021 Ford Explorer Enthusiast St Debuts As New Performance Suv Trim Level
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04-10-2021, 05:58 PM | #2 | ||
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Member#: 67807
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04-11-2021, 04:09 PM | #3 | |
Papi Chulo
Moderator Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
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RMIC
Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:... 2017 BMW M2 2017 F-150 |
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These full size Suv's that we are seeing with rather high horsepower numbers are actually rather fun to drive. 400hp / tq in a 3 row SUV that sits relatively low (for an SUV) would still make for a rather fun vehicle. When you start getting into X3M / X5M and Porsche territory, you're getting a capable performance vehicle that can handle the duty of an SUV. Granted, it's not the performance of a performance car, but they are still fun in other ways. Now, if Subaru were to offer a Forester with the engine, trans and diffs of the STi with some serious off road suspension, that would be worth looking at. However, the market for such a vehicle would be so damn small that it's not worth it. Think of it this way. When dad and mom are shopping for a vehicle to fit their kids and all their sport gear into, it makes a happy medium to get an SUV that has some solid power behind it. Mom gets the large size similar to a minivan, dad gets something that is moderately fun and not embarrassing to be in. The upper Trim Ford vehicles are also pretty damn nice inside and comfortable to ride in. My Lariat has been in the shop for nearly 2 months after some kid hit me (parts back ordered) and I have a loaner 2020 Chevy Sierra 1500 (base model im assuming). It's crazy how night and day difference there is in ride quality between the two vehicles. Hell, even my 2017 XLT rode night and day different than this 1500. Before owning my First Ford (2017 F-150), I never imagined being in a Ford let a lone a large vehicle. Due to the nature of my work, I was more or less forced into buying a truck and I honestly don't think I would ever step out of a Ford / Lincoln SUV or Truck going forward. Only caveat to that would possibly be an X5M or Cayenne. |
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04-11-2021, 06:16 PM | #4 |
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I’ll never understand this. You’re married, with children. You don’t have to be embarrassed about anything. Having your ego in inanimate objects is straight There is nothing embarrassing about a minivan. it’s the better vehicle for this kind of duty. It’s the real tool. The SUV’s are image fakery. They’ll never see an inch of dirt. At least the dude rolling the Sienna or Odyssey is real. Fake life is for fake people.
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04-12-2021, 08:50 AM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
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I don't like "performance" CUVs/SUVs - I've driven them, they suck and drink fuel waaay too quickly; I'd rather have a people mover and a fun toy.
My wife and I are talking about getting a minivan, truck, a fun toy car and dumping our current cars. Ever since I got rid of the wagon we've been needing more cargo space; two kids & their stuff takes up a lot of room. Her hatch isn't big enough, my trunk isn't big enough. The roof rack and a roof box with decent capacity and/or a receiver, tray & storage bin combo options are very limited as well. We both hate crossovers, and they are crap compared to a minivan anyways. |
04-12-2021, 09:00 AM | #6 | |
Papi Chulo
Moderator Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:... 2017 BMW M2 2017 F-150 |
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And while I’ll agree that the image thing is stupid, you can’t ignore it’s real. I’ll drive a minivan, no shame. Those chairs are the most comfort seats I’ve driven in. With my first med job I’d ship my equipment and have to use a minivan to haul between hospitals. Also was ****ing lovely for mid day naps. But you and I don’t care about image and ego with cars. It’s simply a vehicle. But there are way too many men who attach their penis to a vehicle. Hell, even women are becoming “I’m too cool for minivan.” |
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04-12-2021, 11:02 AM | #7 |
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Vehicle:08 Impreza,80Vette 68 Impala, 15 SantaFe |
The last FWD based Explorer was essentially a lifted Flex. It kinda explains why the Flex died as it was a duplicate product in their lineup. The Flex was not a minivan substitute that they initially intended. All they did with the new Explorer was create a RWD version to complete with the Durango, another vehicle that is not intended for off-road, despite having a low range option. As for a RWD ST, I see it as an option, just like a RWD Durango with the V8. These are vehicles that replace the big ol' large sedans of the past.
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04-12-2021, 11:34 AM | #8 |
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I agree with the increase of performance SUV. I picked up a slightly used x3 M40i and I gotta say that it is a BLAST to drive! I think we will definitely see an increase in performance SUVs in the near future. Especially since most companies are using forced induction get meet EPA standards.
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04-12-2021, 12:30 PM | #9 | |
Papi Chulo
Moderator Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:... 2017 BMW M2 2017 F-150 |
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04-12-2021, 02:59 PM | #10 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:Dura ngo 95 horrorshow |
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04-12-2021, 03:55 PM | #11 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67807
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It's got some orange trim? ARE U ****ING KIDDING ME? WHERE DO I SIGN.
And let's move goalposts. It's what we do here. Quote:
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04-12-2021, 04:12 PM | #12 |
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When decent cars cost $50,000 and salaries are fairly flat, you're going to see more and more people trying to get a single "do everything" car. I'd much rather have a real performance car and a normal SUV/Truck but that's a lot of cash to have sitting around in depreciating assets. An SUV that doesn't suck to drive makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.
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04-12-2021, 04:58 PM | #13 | |
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Exact reason why I got the ST. Traded the minivan after the lease was up. Very happy with it. |
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04-12-2021, 05:18 PM | #14 | |
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Location: MN
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SUVs can't be fun if you've ever experienced an actual performance car or any real track time. Except maybe in straight lines. It's ostentatious to have something like a cayenne turbo, or a track hawk, or whatever top tier "performance" SUV, so I more understand that. Flamboyant ego gonna ego. But what's with all these plebs buying middling trims that are just horrendous compromises? Just give it up already. |
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04-12-2021, 05:36 PM | #15 | |
Scooby Specialist
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04-12-2021, 05:47 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 496462
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: MN
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"No, I'll never give up my sports car!" "But honey, we NEED a NEW car for our baby!" "Why don't you get a new car?" "Because we both po' and don't make enough money for that lul" "Fine... but it has to be the sportier edition!" Lolwut? Who likes cars and can't find a will and way to keep at least one proper one around? Some kinda city dweller "we don't have the parking spaces!" garbage... Like I said, if that's the sad reality of your life, just give it up altogether instead of trying to hold onto whatever tiny iota of perceived "manhood" you wish you still had. Pre has it right. If you're a car person, you buy used and get a whole fleet going for each purpose. |
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04-12-2021, 07:18 PM | #17 | |
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I tried to do another "one car" situation, juggled with the idea of two vehicles, but after running the numbers decided to do the IS350. It is not fun enough or practical enough, it crosses my "imaginary line" and thus will not be a long term car. IF it were a wagon, several hundred pounds lighter, a manual, or some combination of those things, it would have made the cut, but it's not, and it feels like the wrong combination of not useful enough and not fun enough for me. I'm looking at a 4dr truck and a toy for fun times, wife is looking at moving up to a minivan from her hatchback as well, even though we only have two kids, my wagon was just the right size for hauling kids & stuff, without it we need something bigger. We both hate CUV's, if we're going to get a soul crushing vehicle, we'd prefer the one with more cargo & people room. These "performance" CUVs just suck to drive, unless you're comparing them to a garden variety BOF 1/2 ton pickup truck. drive what you like. |
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04-12-2021, 07:53 PM | #18 |
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I've got a 4Runner for its practicality and my GTI as the sort of fun commuter car. Plus an XJ as my off-roader. My 4Runner($35k) and my GTI($20k) both together new cost about what one of those hideously overpriced Explorer STs(start @$55k) does and they both perform their roles better than the one size fits all Exploder does.
No amount of power in the 4Runner is going to make it fun to drive, it's just not going to happen. If I want to drive like a dick, I'll just take the GTI. |
04-12-2021, 08:24 PM | #19 |
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Last edited by White out; 05-10-2022 at 03:22 AM. |
04-13-2021, 08:59 AM | #20 | |
Papi Chulo
Moderator Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:... 2017 BMW M2 2017 F-150 |
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Macan Turbo Cayenne Turbo X3 m40i or X3M X5 M50i or x5m Jeep SRT Ford Explorer ST If you legitimately have not driven a “performance” suv, you have 0 room to really give any opinion. If you have driven them, then it’s simply not your jam and move on. But for a lot of people, it checks the box when forced to have a single vehicle. |
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04-13-2021, 09:51 AM | #21 |
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I own an X3MC and I'm not going to blow smoke up anyone's ass here as driving a performance SUV is not the same as a sports car. Sitting up high while great on the street for providing a commanding view isn't as ideal on the track. Fortunately few people track their vehicles so this isn't as big a deal. I can't comment on Explorers and Jeeps but the X3M feels just like driving a raised M3. It corners like it's on rails and will outmaneuver most cars easily while leaving them in the dust on straights. It does feel unnatural at first taking corners fast in an SUV but once I got used to it I'm throwing it in corners like I would my old M2 and you can even get the rear wheels to step out. This is my first SUV and I have spent my entire life driving cars so I do miss the feeling of sitting in a low performance car but I feel the X3M is a great compromise as I still get driving thrills but never have to worry about scraping my front end on steep inclines/declines, parking blocks and I can drive it all winter without fear of scraping on snow ruts/banks, etc. Ownership has been by far the most worry free compared to my previous cars because of these factors.
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04-13-2021, 10:28 AM | #22 | |
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The only time I've ever seen a cayenne even driven in a performance setting is at an SCCA event where it was 1/1 in it's own stock class. It had slicks, was a turbo, and looked... like a ****ing SUV looks when it attempts to drive like a real car... It also turned horrible times (the driver was a good driver strictly doing it for the memes). They can try, but I personally just wouldn't. "ticking a box" in a long list is not the same thing as having only a few boxes ticked. I hope when I get old, or if I'm forced to reconcile practicality, I have the wherewithal to just give up gracefully instead of kicking and screaming as my dignity is slowly withered away Last edited by BeepBoop; 04-13-2021 at 10:34 AM. |
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04-13-2021, 10:37 AM | #23 | |
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We've already discussed in other threads how some would love a Crosstrek "WRX", but I'm in the camp of "a high-riding CUV/SUV is not a sports car". However, I am happy there are choices for those who want them. They make it possible for the more niche, "impractical", sportier vehicles to exist eventually. Everyone has different expectations, experiences, and comfort zones that determine what their view of what "sport" actually means. Kind of like how outside of cars if one person isn't used to exercising then the idea of going on a day hike is overwhelming. Whereas the person who goes to the gym every other day might see someone who only goes on day hikes every weekend as only moderately active. I know people who think the Crosstrek is very zippy and the throttle is sensitive. And some on here would try to convince you that if you buy something without a turbo or less than 200whp that you have a death wish. Perspective is everything. To add to godfather's question to BB, I drove my boss's Cayenne around town once and it was pretty zippy. But I wouldn't say that the Cayenne was sporty. |
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04-13-2021, 11:36 AM | #24 | |
Papi Chulo
Moderator Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region:
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Location: Boner kill city
Vehicle:... 2017 BMW M2 2017 F-150 |
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If we’re going to be brutally honest, a car that sees the track shouldn’t be driven on the street. A track car should have a fully welded cage, appropriate suspension, certified race seats and harnesses, a fire suppressant system or extinguisher at a minimum, etc etc. It’s a rather elitist or at least ignorant view to criticize people who cannot afford multiple purpose vehicles and instead compromise on one that can fulfill most of their wants and needs. If I didn’t have a need for my truck, I’d likely have an X3MC (maybe a x5mc) and also an M2. Why a “performance” suv when I have an M2? Simple. I prefer a larger daily that I can throw stuff in the back but also don’t want my daily to be stale and boring. While I doubt the Escape ST handles all that well, there is still fun to be had with a vehicle that has some power behind it. Hell, look at all the red light racers in their Tesla performance models. Those fools are just WOT pull fan boi’s but there is nothing wrong with that. At least not to me. |
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04-13-2021, 12:43 PM | #25 |
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I know people buy high performance SUVs, fords marketing department is apparently capable of perceiving that as well so they say we want one too. I still think that they are stupid, a waste of money, and a third best option. If I need an SUV I don:t need or want 400 hp unless I am pulling boats or trailers in which case a diesel is probably a better tool for the job. If I need to haul one or two mor people maybe I would go high performance wagon. If I need to haul more than that I am back to a high performance SUV probably a bad choice as then you need a suburban or something. I just think no matter what a SUV sport does, there is something else that does the same things better. However, I must be wrong because back to my first sentence lots of people are buying them. Lots of people do stupid things though, like smoke, wear bell bottoms, finance cars, have credit cards. . .(i am guilty of some of these).
I suspect that a SUV sport does one thing better than anything made, if you want to do 0-60 in five seconds and run headlong into a crash test barrier at the other end, you probably have a winner. |
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