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06-03-2020, 01:10 AM | #401 | |
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Quote:
I think that puts the "this is a sound mod" debate to bed. Thank you for posting!
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06-03-2020, 09:56 AM | #402 | |
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Vehicle:2016 WRX Premium Crystal White Pearl |
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It is not a win-win by any means. You win the rumble and lose power and efficiency, everyone has been saying that since day 1. |
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06-03-2020, 11:18 AM | #403 | |
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Location: our wrx IS the family sedan
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Quote:
Seriously, anybody who bought a 2015-up WRX wanting the STI's traditional Subie rumble I've got news for ya . . . you bought the wrong car. The more observant people among us will notice that there goes another I-wish-I-was-an-Sti. The less observant will only hear another flat-four rattle. Deeper and louder than the VWs of old, but a less than pleasant rattle-y sound nonetheless. Norm |
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06-03-2020, 12:48 PM | #404 |
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MWSOC
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Vehicle:2017 WRX Crystal White Pearl |
Can't wait for everyone to be mad when the FA24DIT shows up in the new STI with a ELH and direct injection.
Oh wait it already has in the Acsent, its making 500whp with bolt ons already. |
06-03-2020, 01:20 PM | #405 | |
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I would probably wait until the 3rd or 4th model year, which allows plenty of time for getting rid of the bugs and for the aftermarket to experiment and grow. By then I should be just about paid off the WRX, assuming I don't start building it past whatever the bolt-on flex route lands me next month... |
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06-03-2020, 02:09 PM | #406 | |
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Vehicle:2019 STI SportTech CWP |
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"2hp" difference means nothing without context. Still waiting for a comparison dyno plot... will it ever happen. sigh. |
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06-03-2020, 02:19 PM | #407 | |
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Quote:
We're going off of the comments of the owner of the WRX, with his mod list, advising that he lost 2whp and boost came on 500 rpms later. Even if the power loss wasn't there, it definitely didn't make power and turbo lag was 'increased'. No dyno plot was provided and do you honestly think someone is going to volunteer to look like an idiot after spending at least a grand? Every single one of these WRXs running these headers, on YouTube, discuss sound and this last dude was the only one to address the performance side of it. There's 0 bullying, 0 telling anyone what to do with their car - it's just words from an owner of a WRX who stated he 'lost power' and that turbo lag was increased - after installing this exact header. So, we've got 1 owner proving this header makes a WRX 'slower' so it can SOUND 'faster'. |
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06-03-2020, 02:20 PM | #408 |
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I don't think anybody cares!! whomever is buying is going for the sound and whomever is actually going for performance is buying something else.... don't hold your breath!
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06-03-2020, 02:54 PM | #409 | |
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But... no, he's not "proved" the header makes the WRX 'slower'. Unless you refer to "proof" as a Youtube comment about 2hp. In that case, then yes... carry on. |
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06-03-2020, 02:59 PM | #410 |
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06-03-2020, 03:40 PM | #411 | |
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The stock manifold ports for each side of the housing are a different size, the slightly smaller one has increased velocity allowing better response and spool. This manifold won’t be as responsive as the stock manifold and it won’t spool as fast, that is a FACT, the larger ports are going to slow down velocity. This header would be fine for a larger turbo, but on the tiny stock turbo you are not going to see any gains considering the stock manifold is already capable of maxing the stock turbo out. Here’s proof of a stock manifold, FBO vehicle putting down 340 whp on 93 octane.... the same car with the killer b EWG manifold made 350 whp on 93 octane.... I’d like to see the tomei try to make those numbers while maintaining that level of low end torque. Not gonna happen. |
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06-03-2020, 04:17 PM | #412 |
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LMAO at this butt hurt fest LOL......a WHOPPING 2 horsepower difference, is basically NO difference from going from the relatively more efficient ELH to a tomei UEL......500 RPM spool difference is also relatively insignificant. All the butt hurt ELH proponents that are angry that the UELH is making a huge come back in the Subaru community, with the BRZ, and the WRX owners flocking to the tomei!!!! ITs hilarious how much this is bothering people, especially the "engineers" that were touting how the header wouldnt work with the twin scroll, and make it sound like going with ANY UELH over the factory (supposedly "much more efficient) cast manifold would cause a massive horsepower and torque loss and cause the engine to self destruct LMAO!!!!
TWO....yes TWO horsepower difference LMAO. This just proves that the UELH design is only minimally less efficient...its all relative....I mean you would think with the way people were comparing the 180 bends..that were so so horrible to flow....and the exhaust pulses backing up in the collector....oh the horror!!! The horror of a T W O horsepower loss. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!! BTW that wouldnt make the car "slower" at all. And we dont know what type of changes were made to the timing fueling and boost tables relative to the tune on the stock header on this car. That WHOPPING market crashing TWO horsepower(LOL), could be from so many other metrics in the tune, aside from just the header design alone. Its a win win either way....car sounds better, has a beautifully manufactured header..the stock header looks like ca ca...and sounds like ca ca....tomei looks fantastic...sounds fantastic and even with a(relatively), less efficient design showed only a supposed TWO......TWO horsepower difference. LOL That's basically no difference. Just proves ELH doesnt have any huge advantange over the UELH....that at best its a minimally relative difference. Better sound, better looks, equal performance Win Win Win!!! Probably tuned conservatively as well I bet..... Ahhhhh its a great day. |
06-03-2020, 04:29 PM | #413 | |
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No one can say what the tomei would make on a full bolt on FA, douobtful it would hurt much at all.....could be down 2 horsepower or up 2 horsepower LOL....but its a pretty safe bet that the tomei header would make a bigger difference over the stock cast manifold, on an engine with every bolt on possible than it would from just swapping the stock ELH for it on a stock engine. Its also safe to assume that a performance ELH will make biiger difference over the stock ELH on a full bolt on FA, and make more torque than a performance UELH on that set up...but it most likely wouldnt be much between the 2 when each was tuned for. Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 06-03-2020 at 04:56 PM. |
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06-03-2020, 04:43 PM | #414 | |
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06-03-2020, 04:52 PM | #415 | |
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Let’s see the tomei with full bolt ons on 93 octane make 340 whp. It won’t, it doesn’t take proper advantage of the twin scroll turbine housing. You can’t advance ignition timing as much, spool is slower. The STOCK manifold will though. And 500 rpm difference equates to about 2 1/2 car lengths from a 40 mph roll..... that’s SIGNIFICANTLY slower.... the rumble sounds like a angry lawn tractor. The UEL will UNDOUBTEDLY be able to make power, on a larger aftermarket turbo specifically where the larger runners and ports can be taken advantage of and you can run much higher boost. But on the stock turbo it simply won’t make any more power. For the guys going “full bolt on” without upgrading the turbo it’s a pointless, expensive mod. At the price of one of these UEL’s I’ll switch the Killer B EWG headers and have the option to make more power everywhere in the power band... |
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06-03-2020, 04:56 PM | #416 |
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500 RPM is a pretty significant difference for a daily driven car. That 500 RPM basically throws twin-scroll benefit of quicker spool out the window. I still wish we got a dyno plot, because when boost comes on and peak numbers doesn't really tell the whole story. Also, those are some good straw-man arguments you made. Nobody ever said this would blow up your motor or cause your turbo to stop working entirely. Everyone was just saying that it is less efficient than the stock manifold... which it is.
I am interested to see how good the reliability is going to be. There are obvious concerns about cracking with UEL headers made from 304SS. If you like the sound, go for it, but this is a performance downgrade (however minimal you may claim it to be) for just under a grand. At least catbacks don't hurt performance... |
06-03-2020, 04:58 PM | #417 | |
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I think you're glossing over yourself acknowledging that the factory header is more responsive, efficient and makes a whopping 2whp more - even if it looks ugly. So yes, it's a great day that you finally realized what everyone has been telling you from the start - sometimes stock is better. I will agree that Tomei's header is beautiful, that it will help you sound like the STi that WRX owners could've opted for to begin with and only marginally decrease performance for that "boxer rumble". Congratulations, we can finally move on from this disaster of a thread. Spark Notes: Modify your car as you see fit, but don't get your "feels" hurt when people question the logic of your "creativity". |
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06-03-2020, 05:12 PM | #418 | |||
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Apparently it will make 338 LOL......ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! But seriously see.... your making the "missing the big picture" mistake here....your trying to say that a performance UELH becomes a restriction on modded Subaru Turbo engines...that's simply not true. Big mistake my friend. False assumption and kind of a newb thing to say. Do your research... the tomei will still hold its own...it will actually be a better match on a full bolt on engine than it would on just a stock engine with a tune. If anything the tomei header is overkill on a stock 2.0....its not using anywhere near the flow its capable of such as on a fully modded engine. I agree its a mismatch on a stock engine where the stock ELH is a perfect match. All that is going to change with "every bolt on possible" though...that will move the flow advatages over the stock ELH to its favor where a fully modded engine can use the UELH performance design. 500 RPM is 2 1/3 car lengths LOL? Too many variables to say that....let alone just launching 500 RPM higher with a tomei to take advantage of the greater than stock flow. STill a win win. Quote:
Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 06-03-2020 at 05:38 PM. |
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06-03-2020, 05:18 PM | #419 | |
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There's only one person throwing the "butt hurt" term around. All I can think of is "The hawk doth protest too much, methinks". Apologies to some English guy from the 16th century named Bill. Norm |
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06-03-2020, 05:31 PM | #420 |
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id take -50 whp to get rumble... to each his own
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06-03-2020, 05:39 PM | #421 |
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06-03-2020, 05:41 PM | #422 |
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dont worry....its a zero(because we know nothing about the tune on that link) to 2 horsepower "difference" I wont even call that a "loss" LOL which means no loss. 500 RPM shift in the curve...just launch 500 RPM higher..which is equivalent sneezing on the throttle pedal LOL....its no where NEAR the massive horror that the butt hurt ELH proponents are trying to sell, that the engine would blow up, be down 100 horsepower etc etc etc.
LOL 2 horsepower and they are having a parade over those results LMAO!!!!! |
06-03-2020, 06:12 PM | #423 | |
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Vehicle:2018 Type RA #350 2021 Honda Civic Type R |
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There's no parade to be had, most are simply acknowledging that losing (anything) and increasing turbo lag with an aftermarket header isn't exactly ideal. If you want to rumble, go ahead. If you want spend $800 to change the sound of your setup go ahead. However, don't pretend like this header isn't about sound, because it is. The fact we've got someone willing to lose power, for sound, is the actual case in point. You're welcome to post away about the UELH being a scaled down version of Jesus - I don't care. I don't own a WRX, or want to own a WRX, so whatever FA owners do is on them. |
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06-03-2020, 08:02 PM | #424 | |
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Start throwing more serious mods at the uelh so it can be better matched. Either way this comparison is a wash....at least on that car linked. |
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06-03-2020, 08:28 PM | #425 | |
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...the butt hurt is over the sound of the UELH pulses.....some people just hate that sound...I honestly found it kind of lazy sounding when I would hear STI's when they first came here in 2004, they just need to be revved and then that backed up pulse sound turns into a deep roar. |
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